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  1. #7531
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    Morgan's land tax proposal based on the supposed benefit of owning a house is an asset tax. If you own a house but your income is low , too bad , the IRD will get it's cash. An unfair tax.
    With computer programs it would easy too subtract the bought price from the selling price, subtract the inflation based on the number of years held and tax the capital gain.
    No adjustments for improvements or maintenance. Quite simple. If you choose to maintain or improve
    that is your choice, but the benefits of owning your home can be considered to outweigh these costs.
    If you sell for less than the purchase price - no tax.
    The Auckland Council has no problem with hitting ratepayers an extra hundred or so dollars as a transport levy whether you walk, ride a bike, or don't own a car so why not.
    Would possibly need only a zero contracted IRD clerk to run the whole program

    westerly

  2. #7532
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    interesting discussion regarding the pros and cons of a cgt, and the best ways to implement it.
    i look at my mothers situation........
    she turns 70 in 3 months time. has paid her house off in manurewa and is on a pension.
    she has lived in this house for almost 40 years and runs a tight ship with her "income"
    if a cgt were to come in based on appreciation of the value of her home year on year........
    she would have no choice but to sell her home and leave the community she spent most of her life in......
    just so the government can ""try and reduce demand"" in the blown out auckland housing market.

    is this fair to the tens of thousands of elderly home owners who have no interest in property speculation.....
    but will be overtly targeted by an all encompassing cgt tax???

    IMHO.... shift industry more evenly around the country, shift migrants more evenly around the country,
    control property speculators with more stringent banking rules.....??

    if a potential government wants to target grandmas freehold home.... "and i mean HOME"..... they will surely lose
    all the elderly votes.

  3. #7533
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    No of course they won't, but that doesn't mean its not a good idea.
    Yes the market could steady & ease off, however its showing no sign of that & markets that run hard generally fall hard as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by artemis View Post
    Is it still a bubble if it goes out with a whimper rather than a bang? A quiet deflating over time rather than a loud and sudden burst? (Not everyone agrees it is a bubble of course - time will tell.)

    Do you think Dr Morgan's idea will be adopted as policy by any party before the next election?
    Hopefully you find my posts helpful, but in no way should they be construed as advice. Make your own decision.

  4. #7534
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    Yes its a good point & one I had considered. I think like anything of major reform you should implement it gradually & probably need an income based assessment or something along those lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by neopoleII View Post
    interesting discussion regarding the pros and cons of a cgt, and the best ways to implement it.
    i look at my mothers situation........
    she turns 70 in 3 months time. has paid her house off in manurewa and is on a pension.
    she has lived in this house for almost 40 years and runs a tight ship with her "income"
    if a cgt were to come in based on appreciation of the value of her home year on year........
    she would have no choice but to sell her home and leave the community she spent most of her life in......
    just so the government can ""try and reduce demand"" in the blown out auckland housing market.

    is this fair to the tens of thousands of elderly home owners who have no interest in property speculation.....
    but will be overtly targeted by an all encompassing cgt tax???

    IMHO.... shift industry more evenly around the country, shift migrants more evenly around the country,
    control property speculators with more stringent banking rules.....??

    if a potential government wants to target grandmas freehold home.... "and i mean HOME"..... they will surely lose
    all the elderly votes.
    Hopefully you find my posts helpful, but in no way should they be construed as advice. Make your own decision.

  5. #7535
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    I agree with neopoleII and Westerly, Gareth Morgan's idea for an asset tax levied each year, is the sort of idea that would never get implemented. Maybe that's the reason it was proposed.

    I'm not sure how it would be done, but the main threshold for an eventual fair CGT on some assets would surely be when you either regularly, or could, claim interest and/or expenses on particular assets, in your tax return. Those expense claims reduce your otherwise levied taxes every year, and would never apply to the family home. These claims normally come in through a business structure's annual return, be it sole trader, partnership or company, so they are easy to trace.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...day+9+May+2015
    Last edited by elZorro; 10-05-2015 at 10:09 PM.

  6. #7536
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    Quote Originally Posted by neopoleII View Post
    interesting discussion regarding the pros and cons of a cgt, and the best ways to implement it.
    i look at my mothers situation........
    she turns 70 in 3 months time. has paid her house off in manurewa and is on a pension.
    she has lived in this house for almost 40 years and runs a tight ship with her "income"
    if a cgt were to come in based on appreciation of the value of her home year on year........
    she would have no choice but to sell her home and leave the community she spent most of her life in......
    just so the government can ""try and reduce demand"" in the blown out auckland housing market.

    is this fair to the tens of thousands of elderly home owners who have no interest in property speculation.....
    but will be overtly targeted by an all encompassing cgt tax???

    IMHO.... shift industry more evenly around the country, shift migrants more evenly around the country,
    control property speculators with more stringent banking rules.....??

    if a potential government wants to target grandmas freehold home.... "and i mean HOME"..... they will surely lose
    all the elderly votes.
    My first rental flat was at the top of Sugarloaf Road, in Wellington. That was in 1960. Commanding views over Wellington and minutes by bus to the centre of town. Many of the houses in the area were owned by folk who had lived there all their lives and were freehold. But that was not allowed. City rates on such properties were adjusted upwards to the point where most of the older residents had to move to lesser properties to survive. Nothing is new. My neighbours here in Hawkes Bay bought a magnificient home with unimpeded views across the Bay some years ago and I wondered how they could afford it. Simply, they had sold their house in Auckland and moved to Hawkes Bay. I believe that more and more families will migrate to the provinces as they find work and a better lifestyle. What's the point of living in Auckland on a large salary if you are on the bones of your arse trying to pay off a house and survive in an overtaxed concrete jungle?

  7. #7537
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    Quote Originally Posted by craic View Post
    My first rental flat was at the top of Sugarloaf Road, in Wellington. That was in 1960. Commanding views over Wellington and minutes by bus to the centre of town. Many of the houses in the area were owned by folk who had lived there all their lives and were freehold. But that was not allowed. City rates on such properties were adjusted upwards to the point where most of the older residents had to move to lesser properties to survive. Nothing is new. My neighbours here in Hawkes Bay bought a magnificient home with unimpeded views across the Bay some years ago and I wondered how they could afford it. Simply, they had sold their house in Auckland and moved to Hawkes Bay. I believe that more and more families will migrate to the provinces as they find work and a better lifestyle. What's the point of living in Auckland on a large salary if you are on the bones of your arse trying to pay off a house and survive in an overtaxed concrete jungle?

    There will be a huge wave of boomer retirees moving from Auckland in the next few years. There are plenty living in million dollar plus homes who have little more than Nat. super to look forward to, which leaves peanuts after a large rates bill and the expenses of a large city. Same the world over. A good home in one of the regions (there are no provinces in NZ) for say 5-600 k could make a massive difference to their lives. We all know that of course, but I doubt if many realise the extent to which it will happen.
    Last edited by fungus pudding; 11-05-2015 at 07:09 AM.

  8. #7538
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    There will be a huge wave of boomer retirees moving from Auckland in the next few years. There are plenty living in million dollar plus homes who have little more than Nat. super to look forward to, which leaves peanuts after a large rates bill and the expenses of a large city. Same the world over. A good home in one of the regions (there are no provinces in NZ) for say 5-600 k could make a massive difference to their lives. We all know that of course, but I doubt if many realise the extent to which it will happen.
    While this force to relocation may be a bit sad, I think you guys are deliberately talking off topic.

    MPs pecuniary interests show that National MPs in particular have several property investments, many of them rental properties in Auckland. I have long thought that MP salaries are not that big, and the perks probably only balance out the long hours. Those who become MPs, especially on National's side, will usually have independent income as well, like family farms. Even some of the Labour MPs and candidates appear to be in the same boat. That's fair enough, as long as they realise the privileged position that they are in, and it doesn't affect their decisions.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/politi...-conflict'

    Radio NZ had Andrew King on this morning, there's a guy who can talk out of both sides of his mouth. According to him, investors have no advantage when bidding for houses at auction, they don't affect the auctions, and any interest and costs they claim back that normal householders can't, is just part of the business they are in, and they pay tax on the end result.

    Except they don't all pay taxes willingly, they do try and flip houses without paying income tax, and they'll keep buying more stock to keep their interest costs gnawing away at any profits, so as to reduce the tax due. Especially when house prices are ramping up with no end in sight yet. Why wouldn't you?
    Last edited by elZorro; 11-05-2015 at 09:09 AM.

  9. #7539
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    EZ, you want to go @gtiso twitter account and follow the conversation from this tweet

    @gtiso: Who is this delightful fellow who claims to work for the PM and threatens to track down his critics on Twitter?

    Bullies

  10. #7540
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    EZ, it is evident that you detest Key and National and blame all the ills of the nation on them but in you many hundreds of leftie posts you have never explained why your beloved Labour has achieved so little other than creating a desire by the voters to throw them out of office, sooner rather than later.

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