If National wins ...

[Daytr]

I would suggest there is nothing outstanding about his analysis & that it is very flawed. I saw him interviewed on a number of occasions during the election including the one in his own home. His idea that markets on their own will dictate better outcomes or self correct wrongs or come to a balance is extremely naïve. He came across as very arrogant & had very little compassion. Not someone I would associate with.
Either way he's become a political dinosaur, even before he learnt to walk & that's a good thing.
ACT didn't poll so well & the only reason they have a seat at all is that it was gifted by National.
They aren't the only party that want to tackle superannuation, Labour put in place Kiwi Save & the Cullen Fund both things that National have either stopped funding or changed for the worse.
Less red tape, easy one liner that has no substance. Red tape can be good, can be bad, but quite often its in place to reign in reckless behavior.

Just because someone wants to reduce in immigration, you put a xenophobic label on them.
Labels are easy & poor debate.
It makes good common sense to reduce immigration at a time when infrastructure is creaking & property prices are out of control in Auckland & many Kiwis have decided to return home due to the global economy.
I for one don't want to live in a more populous country.
That's one of the things I love about NZ, its not overcrowded. But I suppose I must be xenophobic as well...

[BlackPeter]

Just because someone wants to reduce in immigration, you put a xenophobic label on them.
Labels are easy & poor debate.
It makes good common sense to reduce immigration at a time when infrastructure is creaking & property prices are out of control in Auckland & many Kiwis have decided to return home due to the global economy.
I for one don't want to live in a more populous country.
That's one of the things I love about NZ, its not overcrowded. But I suppose I must be xenophobic as well...

I don't put a label on Winston Peters - he is very capable on doing that by himself, every time he draws the race card. More than 60.000 hits on Google on "Winston Peters" combined with "xenophobia".

Looking at managing immigration ... Sure - nothing wrong with an intelligent debate about it and a long term strategy. However - it is one of these things you can't just switch on and off like a tap of water. It takes typically years for people to consider whether they want to migrate at all - and than 2 to 3 years between starting to select their new "home countries" to arriving at their new shores. I know what I am talking about - went through this process (several decades ago) myself - and no matter what your race - either you or some of your forebears did at some stage the same, otherwise you wouldn't be here.

This means - immigration is a process which needs to be managed with sensibility (humans are involved) and with long term goals in mind. Similar to superannuation. If you really want to manage immigration, than you need to look at at least 5 year cycles to ramp up / ramp down the immigration stream. And even then - you can't really change rules retrospectively - and btw - the biggest immigration stream over the recent years was returning Kiwis. Oh - did Winston forget to mention that? Ah well - he is not interested in managing anything - he is just drawing the race card prior to every election to attract an inherently racist part of the population. Winston just wants to return for another 3 years to the trough ... and he does not really care where his votes are coming from.

So - why should we care? Well - both of us live here already legally (well, I do - and I assume you do as well), so why should we care if populist politicians stop the immigration flow? Now, there are a number of reasons (and fairness being only one of them). The inconvenient truth is that NZ (and particular its high tech business) wouldn't be able to survive without foreign subject matter experts, like e.g. scientists and software and other engineers coming from overseas. Just talk with any HR manager of one of our tech stocks. Our medical system would crash without foreign doctors and nurses. Our universities are good, but they just don't produce enough graduates in the areas where our economy urgently need specialists.

I used to work for a NZ high tech company winning export awards for many years. About 2/3rd's of the engineering staff (several hundred people) were recruited from overseas - we just couldn't get enough qualified people in NZ. People like Winston made it more difficult to recruit high quality staff from overseas. They hear what's going on over here - and hey, they do have options. They don't need to come to NZ, but can pick as well friendlier shores.

Politicians like Winston do damage the NZ brand - basically every time they open their mouth. Thats whats wrong with them.

[Daytr]

You are confused, and not for the first time.
Reducing immigration is not drawing a race card. A massive and unfair generalization.
We could have far better criteria than just having a million bucks to sink into the Auckland property market.
Well with people like you spreading these types of generalisations no doubt you get hits.
And all that actually means is there are 60k hits of Winston Peters AND Xenophobia so they could be quite independent from each other & come up in a google search. I see you follow your previous leader's naïve approach to things if you think that sort of analysis or 'research' has any qualitative factor.
Winston Peters has been in parliament longer than anyone else and has done a hell of a lot for this country and kept a lot of people honest over the years. Perhaps you have forgotten the wine-box scandal. I haven't and he was bloody well right. You have criticized others for just being negative & knockers & what are you doing here about the longest serving MP in the country. He has given service to this country over decades and that shouldn't just be side swiped at with innuendo or mass generalisations. Many criticize him from jumping parties and coalition partners etc. Perhaps check out Winston Churchill's political career & how many times he jumped ship. Its because he had backbone & lives by his convictions & not just the political flavour of the day & stay with a party no matter what their politics or policy. He's not perfect, but who is & over 40 years in politics you will have a few blemishes, who wouldn't. Unfortunately that's all some people want to remember. He also at age 69 just overthrew the biggest majority in NZs political history. Not a bad achievement in my book, perhaps your man could have learnt a few things from him.

In regards immigration, you do what is right for the country, you don't do nothing, as National have done & yes Kiwis are returning, so don't ignore that, adjust immigration accordingly. There will always be room to bring in talent on sponsored visas if they cannot get local talent. And no one is suggesting turning off the tap completely but adjust it when its required. For those who have already made an application, they are in the system, but it doesn't mean you need to keep accepting the same amount of applications going forward. If it changes back in future where Kiwis take flight in numbers again, you can adjust it back up if need be. Quite simple really.

Humans are involved apparently & here I was thinking we were talking about fruit flies or perhaps poisonous spiders. Sorry getting confused they come in freely without any paperwork. ;-)

[BlackPeter]

You are confused, and not for the first time.

You are playing the man - not the ball ... and not for the first time ...

Winston Peters has been in parliament longer than anyone else and has done a hell of a lot for this country and kept a lot of people honest over the years. Perhaps you have forgotten the wine-box scandal. I haven't and he was bloody well right. You have criticized others for just being negative & knockers & what are you doing here about the longest serving MP in the country. He has given service to this country over decades and that shouldn't just be side swiped at with innuendo or mass generalisations. Many criticize him from jumping parties and coalition partners etc. Perhaps check out Winston Churchill's political career & how many times he jumped ship. Its because he had backbone & lives by his convictions & not just the political flavour of the day & stay with a party no matter what their politics or policy. He's not perfect, but who is & over 40 years in politics you will have a few blemishes, who wouldn't. Unfortunately that's all some people want to remember. He also at age 69 just overthrew the biggest majority in NZs political history. Not a bad achievement in my book, perhaps your man could have learnt a few things from him.

Give me a break ... maybe a worthwhile proposal to pope Francis to get him canonized? Just a thought. Yes, I remember the winebox scandal - and yes, he did good at that time. However 25 years or so have past since then. Not much good did he deliver after that (I have mixed feelings re the gold card ...) - and hey - he must feel very appropriately rewarded by the right to receive not just an outstanding pension schema for MP's plus NZ super but have as well the opportunity to use his own personal gold card ...

In regards immigration, you do what is right for the country, you don't do nothing, as National have done & yes Kiwis are returning, so don't ignore that, adjust immigration accordingly. There will always be room to bring in talent on sponsored visas if they cannot get local talent. And no one is suggesting turning off the tap completely but adjust it when its required. For those who have already made an application, they are in the system, but it doesn't mean you need to keep accepting the same amount of applications going forward. If it changes back in future where Kiwis take flight in numbers again, you can adjust it back up if need be. Quite simple really.

Should NZ have a proper debate about immigration? Absolutely! And I do recognise that there are a number of benefits as well as drawbacks to immigration. Is Winston the right man to run this discussion? Certainly not. More important however - this is not the stuff to raise 4 weeks prior to the election and then forget (until the next election) - this is something we should have a good discussion about once - and then agree on a immigration policy everybody can rely on.

Maybe we should include in this discussion whether we want to allow the 1 million plus overseas Kiwis to return at will - and whether it is sensible to keep an open door for all 16 million Aussies who could stand tomorrow in front of our door, buy our houses and suck our social systems empty. Is this all a good idea? I don't know. Maybe we should discuss, whether we have already too many Dutch people (not picking here on the Dutch - just replace with any other European nationality) on board - why is it always just the Asians who seem to buy "our" houses?

Make no mistake - Winston does not want to develop a good immigration policy - it would be even detrimental for him. Winston lives of people's fear - (somebody might buy my house or take my job or ...) and it is always easy to direct this fear at another group of people - particularly if they look a bit different to the standard Kiwi bloke.

Humans are involved apparently & here I was thinking we were talking about fruit flies or perhaps poisonous spiders. Sorry getting confused they come in freely without any paperwork. ;-)

I guess I will avoid to use the opportunity to comment on your standards. Winston's influence - is it?

[westerly]

Nothing wrong with Jamie White ... he is not just an outstanding analyst, thinker and economist, he is as well honest ...

But yes - I do see the difference to the from you supported Northland member ... Winston is a populist who loves to feature in the months prior to any election xenophobic ideas (http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/tag/xenophobia) ... and if he can't find any foreign buyer of NZ property he can crucify, than he even makes them up http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ctid=11207350; If that's a politician to your heart, than I guess you got the member you deserve ...

BTW - David Seymour is currently leading ACT.

Agree however that ACT had prior to Jamie a less good hand in selecting their party leaders (and some might consider this as an understatement) - too much dead wood and outworn National politicians: Brash, Banks. Prebble used to be o.k.

More importantly however - when did you last look at their policies? Hey - here are some ideas how to keep the economy going:

http://www.act.org.nz/policies

Less red tape / less government / better education system .. and hey - ACT is at current the only party brave enough to state that our current superannuation schema is not sustainable - and proposing to do something about it.

You should support them ...

Seymour is only there because Key did to his own party candidate, what Labour did to it's candidate in Northland. Labour copped a lot more flak from the media and right wing blogs though.
Act is a joke with policies favouring the well off against the majority. Their superannuation policy is nebulous apart from saying provide for yourself.
Meanwhile Key with his cohort of stale ministers (McCull, Smith, Carter, Brownlee etc.) while slyly implementing neo-liberal policies tries to make out they are a centre party with token attempts at
social justice usually following strong media publicity. (insulating rentals a case in point} and replying to a later post,
As a first option for any imagined slight it is easy to draw the race card and a gift to media always on the lookout for easy headlines.
Winston echoes the thoughts of many average New Zealanders and those with family generations going back 150 years in NZ could be forgiven for being annoyed at the “ we are all immigrants” trotted out on a regular basis. Maoris would also possibly raise an eyebrow.
Coming here with a fist full of money or having spent your productive life in another country and looking for a nice uncrowded bolt hole to retire to is a major reason for the inflated property market.
Previous generation of immigrants generally met far harder criteria than exist today.
Incidently I only managed 35000 hits for Winston Peters and xenophobia but whats a little exaggeration.

westerly

[Daytr]

Well BP in the last few days you have jumped from pedophiles, to mass murderers & now xenophobes, all on your own.
So my comment in regards you being confused is quite legitimate, if not restrained.

Perhaps you should give NZs longest standing government minister a break & recognize some of the good things he has done. I freely admitted he's not perfect, so again your reference to me thinking he's a saint, is well off the mark. Lately he has stood up to National's record on swamp kauri trade which is a disgrace. He is now taking aim in regards Kiwi rail. Perhaps instead of National trying to corporatize social services they could actually try to fix something like Kiwirail. It would suit their road building agenda to no doubt put more trucks on our roads, rather than making a sustainable investment in the rail service to get more trucks off roads. The maintenance bill across the country on our roads due to logging trucks etc must add up to $100s of millions each year. Under their watch they have completely mismanaged the Cook Strait ferry service & I'm sure everyone remembers the rollout of the teachers payroll system, another example of their incompetence.

Another massive assumption. Winston has a policy on immigration, he is not running the discussion, however as Westerly stated above his views are in line with a lot of NZers. Could he sometimes be more tactful in what he says? Yes I agree he could be.

Really, Kiwis perhaps not allowed to return? So you would rather have open slather immigration at the cost of its own CITIZENS.
So you are saying this is a form of immigration? LOL! Should I apologize for coming HOME after living overseas for years?
You do like drawing extremes.
No to all your suggestions. We should just adjust the number of immigrants according to the in-out flow of NZers, not just sit on our hands & do nothing as National have done. As I've said, its quite simple really...
Re the Aussies, as there are far more Kiwis going to Aussie than the other way around I would prefer to deal with real issues than imaginary ones.

My guess is that you don't like Winston Peters as he is probably the most effective opposition leader in the country.
Single handedly he has founded a party that has survived & is now flourishing & is probably NZs 3rd or 4th party in the country.
He just dealt National the biggest blow in NZs political history with the Northland bi-election. Love him or hate him he deserves respect.
I would like you to point out how often has he been caught lying compared to the PM?
I have lost count how many times John Key has outright lied to NZ in the last few years alone.
Twice comes straight to mind. Troop deployment in Afghanistan & the spying by the GCSB on NZers.

Haven't you said you think that NZF will form a coalition with National in 2017? Or was that someone else?
If it was you, it seems you don't mind him too much as long as it suits your purpose of the right staying in government.

Super Winnie, the biggest thorn in John Key's side. Key must be itching to tug on a ponytail every time he sees or hears from the MP for Northland. ;-)

[BlackPeter]

Coming here with a fist full of money or having spent your productive life in another country and looking for a nice uncrowded bolt hole to retire to is a major reason for the inflated property market.
westerly

Look westerly - I understand. However - you would need to sort this out with daytr ... he was the one spending his productive life in Aussie, paying taxes over there and now coming back for retirement to NZ. I have no problems with that - but you seem to have.

[BlackPeter]

Incidently I only managed 35000 hits for Winston Peters and xenophobia but whats a little exaggeration.

westerly

So - you really got only 35000 hits? Really? Hand on your heart?

Funny search engines, but if it helps - here is my search result:

Attachment 7476

[BlackPeter]

My guess is that you don't like Winston Peters as he is probably the most effective opposition leader in the country.
)

Not sure, whether I like or dislike Winston Peters ... I don't vote based on "like". However I fully agree with your statement that he is the most effective opposition leader in the country. And this is a really sad reflection on the state of our opposition.

[BlackPeter]

Haven't you said you think that NZF will form a coalition with National in 2017? Or was that someone else?
If it was you, it seems you don't mind him too much as long as it suits your purpose of the right staying in government.

I probably did (say that this might happen). However - I never said that I like it!
Maybe you should better read people's posts before you run them into the ground ... and this is not just referring to this particular comment.