If National wins ...

[Daytr]

Slimwin, I agree they could have done it better, however it has now created a real conversation and perhaps some real action will ensue.
National were sitting on their hands doing nothing & I would suggest collecting data starting in a few months is pretty much doing nothing. NZ is one of the few countries that has basically open slather in regards foreign property purchases. Only what are considered properties of significance are reviewed by the FIO and few & far between are turned down.
Unfortunately what is creating the poor debate, is using this, as if foreign ownership changes will only target Chinese. It wont, it will target all foreign ownership and what Labour have done is highlighted a very real issue of foreign buyers of which the majority are Chinese. They don't have auctions in Auckland translated into French, Japanese or German. Racism is to discriminate against one race over another. The law changes required and what Labour's & NZF's policy is for ALL foreign purchases.
If this is racist, then the rest of the world that has these very common sense laws in place are racist as well.

[RGR367]

Yeah, Labour could have done it better but if you have "Little" or a weak leader, all their presentations will come out off tangent and be labelled as bordering on racism. The Chinese and those with chinese sounding last names will embrace that as racism for sure. They should have made a public alliance with Winston's NZ First at best at and maybe that would have come out better


disc: not been a National or a Labour voter for the past 5 elections

[BlackPeter]

Unfortunately what is creating the poor debate, is using this, as if foreign ownership changes will only target Chinese. It wont, it will target all foreign ownership and what Labour have done is highlighted a very real issue of foreign buyers of which the majority are Chinese. They don't have auctions in Auckland translated into French, Japanese or German. Racism is to discriminate against one race over another. The law changes required and what Labour's & NZF's policy is for ALL foreign purchases.
If this is racist, then the rest of the world that has these very common sense laws in place are racist as well.

Daytr, agreed - creating rules against any foreign (i.e. somebody without NZ residency) property buyer is certainly not racist, though it might be unwise (but there is no law against stupidity ...).

However - publishing a flawed analysis of confidential company data based on whether somebodys name sounds Chinese certainly is. I don't think this is a battle Labour can win - but yes, maybe they take some of Winston's voters but loose many to the Greens. Who cares - really, every country has its bad apples in politics. The French have their "Front National", Greece has their "Golden Dawn", Austria has its "Freedom party" and NZ Labour competes with Winston for the most xenophobic position.

Never mind - I guess there is still the so called Green party for Lefties with a bit of moral backbone.

[Daytr]

Well BP those countries that you referred to before we are emulating in regards home ownership have these sort of rules.
In fact virtually all first world countries have these sort of foreign ownership rules.
So I guess the rest of the world is stupid & we are the only smart ones in the room... Yeah right.

[elZorro]

Daytr, agreed - creating rules against any foreign (i.e. somebody without NZ residency) property buyer is certainly not racist, though it might be unwise (but there is no law against stupidity ...).

However - publishing a flawed analysis of confidential company data based on whether somebodys name sounds Chinese certainly is. I don't think this is a battle Labour can win - but yes, maybe they take some of Winston's voters but loose many to the Greens. Who cares - really, every country has its bad apples in politics. The French have their "Front National", Greece has their "Golden Dawn", Austria has its "Freedom party" and NZ Labour competes with Winston for the most xenophobic position.

Never mind - I guess there is still the so called Green party for Lefties with a bit of moral backbone.

I guess you can say what you like on a forum, BP, but can you prove Labour's analysis is flawed? You don't have the data, they didn't say anything hard and fast as you imply, and they made every effort to reduce errors in surnames being attributed to just one ethnicity, if there was any doubt.

It is Labour's job to be a strong opposition at the moment, they've started to show that by working on the house sales data they were given, to come up with a fair representation of what is likely to be happening in Auckland. They even compared these results with what is happening in other areas outside Auckland, finding that where house prices are more stable, the sales ethnicity splits line up far more evenly with the domestic population ethnicity in those areas.

Therefore, a reasonable conclusion is that foreign property investors are concentrating on Auckland (the majority of whom happen to have Chinese surnames), and that they are having an effect on prices being paid.

Again, this doesn't lead me to conclude that the Labour Party has no moral backbone. Maybe if I was a rabid ACT/National voter, I'd just say that anyway.

BP, do you think National should solve this issue by running a public register, and do it earlier than October 1st? Should they change the rules on foreign investment in residential property? Or should we let the all-seeing market rule? -don't worry about first home buyers in Auckland.

[blackcap]

Again, this doesn't lead me to conclude that the Labour Party has no moral backbone. .

What is good for the goose is good for the gander. A staff member was fired.... (something one cannot do in this country without consequences if there is no justification for it) and Labour used this stolen private data.... so no need to talk about moral backbone EZ.

[BlackPeter]

I guess you can say what you like on a forum, BP, but can you prove Labour's analysis is flawed? You don't have the data, they didn't say anything hard and fast as you imply, and they made every effort to reduce errors in surnames being attributed to just one ethnicity, if there was any doubt.

Hi EZ - you are right, it is much easier to invent a new theory than to prove it is wrong ... particularly if the data provided in the first place have little credibility.

Look - Labour can do as much number acrobatic as it wants on a set of accidently (to be very polite) gathered and unverifiable data. Just make some incredible claims and ask people to believe into them - EZ, that's the stuff religions are made of - not the base for a good and ethical political discussion.

It is Labour's job to not just prove that the data are right (which they haven't done), but as well to explain why they are relevant. Given that a not insignificant proportion of the odd 40 k new immigrants per year happen to come from China (certainly more than the 10% already living here) - why shouldn't they buy as well a larger proportion of new houses for sale? They need to be allowed to live somewhere - don't they?

If Labour would have wanted to add value - then why not just get a sample of say 1000 recently sold houses in Auckland and get somebody to inquire the residence status of the new owner. Maybe we find out that all the Smiths on this list are from the UK and therefore distorting the Auckland housing market?

BP, do you think National should solve this issue by running a public register, and do it earlier than October 1st? Should they change the rules on foreign investment in residential property? Or should we let the all-seeing market rule? -don't worry about first home buyers in Auckland.

Actually - personally I don't think that adding red tape to this situation will add a lot of value ... a wee survey / analysis as described above would be much easier, cheaper and faster to implement. Just look at the new titles (they are a public record, even if you now need to prove a justified interest to see them) ... and if in doubt about the new owners residence status (e.g. the owners living somewhere overseas) - than just give them a wee phone call and ask. In most cases this should be enough. Implementing a new bureaucratic nightmare is just one of these stupid things National did to keep Labour at any cost out of government ... I guess the price we all will pay to keep some populists happy (Thank you Winston and Labour).

Would this proposed analysis add value? Perhaps ... at least it shouldn't cost the world, and if we find out it is really mainly foreign investors (vs immigrants with foreign names) snapping away our houses (hey - only the ones we sell), than by all means lets implement some restrictions for foreign house buyers ... but please: keep - race out of the analysis.

Honestly - I just hope that Labour manages to get all the creepy crawlies back into the can they opened for the sake of a handful of racist votes. Dirty politics, indeed.

Looking at the Auckland housing market - here are some ideas to really make it easier for first home buyers:
- move jobs into the regions, lots of affordable houses out there.
- reduce red tape for building consents
- increase the number of houses / apartments on offer

Inciting racial tensions is neither helpful nor ethical ... just populist.

[elZorro]

What is good for the goose is good for the gander. A staff member was fired.... (something one cannot do in this country without consequences if there is no justification for it) and Labour used this stolen private data.... so no need to talk about moral backbone EZ.

The staff member was probably fired because of the likely impact on the businesses' reputation amongst foreign buyers. If National had gathered the buyers' data they should have, and made it public as they should have, there would have been no need to wait for a whistle-blower to act in the interests of Auckland's first-home buyers.

[Daytr]

Sorry BP, I like a lot of others don't want a bigger population. Short & simple.
I don't want NZ to end up like everywhere else in the world with too many people etc,
The data is already available & this register is a nonsense.
Simply marry up registered property owners with the Census.
There is a problem & National are choosing to ignore it. Labour & NZF are highlighting the issue.
National & its supporters are using a diversion tactic of pulling the race card.
As said over & over neither Labour or NZF's policies are racist & you are just pulling out a red herring to divert away from the real issue.
Immigration and foreign property purchases need to be reigned in.

[westerly]

Maybe Labours got it right.

HTTP://www.scmp.com/news/china/artic...-high?page=all

westerly