If National wins ...

[macduffy]

This "discussion" seems to be going at cross purposes!

Just for starters, MvT's point about Kiwisaver and debt refers to the govt - issued debt held in Kiwisaver accounts on behalf of members. Unless I'm also chasing off on a further tangent!

[Daytr]

Correct it has & I did misunderstand his post. However justifying an exploding debt situation just so the likes of Kiwi saver have instruments to invest in is hardly justification for continual borrowing and more than trebling gov't debt.

[winner69]

Harper and the Conservatives under pressure in Canada election. Could well lose

I can see Key sounding off like in 2 years time. Harper at a rally as reported -

Harper’s short speech was characterised by heavy leaning on the word “protect”, but he stuck largely to economic themes.

“It is all about protecting jobs, protecting hardworking families, protecting local businesses,” he began. “We all know that were part of a very unstable global economy … a vote for [the Conservatives] is a vote to protect our jobs.”

He said he wanted to talk about “what Canadians would lose, would risk, if the Liberals form a government”.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...inal-poll-push

Neo-Libs getting their comeuppance with the populous showing their resentment of such policies. Good to see

[westerly]

Hi Sergeant, I note that you have meddled with the quoted text ... though it looks like that your main action was to screw up the content I put into brackets (including the statement you quoted) - Why?

If you look at the original statement in context (i.e. put the brackets back where they belong), than the whole thing might be clearer ... though admittedly - irony is a difficult thing to convey ... particularly in writing

What I tried to convey is that net tax payers (i.e. people paying more taxes than they receive benefits) must feel stupid if we see how they are treated by the Left ... not just milked by the system anyway, but consistently exposed to the marvellous and ingenious ideas of any budding Left-wing politician: "oh, just lets increase the taxes of the performers so that we can transfer still more money through an inefficient bureaucracy to the non performers".

BTW - I consider myself as one of these people (paying more taxes than receiving benefits) ... and so it was all my life. No intention to offend or harm honest tax payers ...

Does this help?

(be that the "capitalists", the so called "well off" or just anybody stupid enough to pay taxes) and that way shrinking the cake, the rest of the world did learn that it is a better idea to first grow the cake before distributing it.

I think you are being ingenuous in your reply to Sgt. Pepper. Classes, inefficient bureaucracy, performers and non performers. Seems like the usual far right attempt to put down the upstarts from the left who do not believe in survival of the fittest.

Given that you infer the left do not pay taxes but hold their collective hands out for more of the cake, growing the cake seems like a good idea but when one reads that half of the worlds assets are held by just 1% of the population, perhaps one could be forgiven for thinking ( erroneously of course ) you have no intention of decreasing your share having paid more tax than you have received in benefits.
As for the TTPA I cannot decide whether it is better to be a poor State of the USA or a peasant in a Chinese Province but I guess we will find out one day as the country is sold off with the secret deal National has negotiated.

westerly

[Sgt Pepper]

I see that John Key really gave Malcolm Turnbull a bollocking over the detention of New Zealanders in Australia. Poor Malcolm Turnbull, I mean John really turned on the heat, he made his case and bravely went into battle for us, second after second he bravely fought, unfortunately for no result.

I suspect the exchange was more like

John Key: excuse me sir, I am sorry to have to
ask, but would you possibly consider changing your policy just a wee bit

Malcolm Turnbull: NO, now piss off.

Oh well, thinks John, I did try

[iceman]

I see that John Key really gave Malcolm Turnbull a bollocking over the detention of New Zealanders in Australia. Poor Malcolm Turnbull, I mean John really turned on the heat, he made his case and bravely went into battle for us, second after second he bravely fought, unfortunately for no result.

I suspect the exchange was more like

John Key: excuse me sir, I am sorry to have to
ask, but would you possibly consider changing your policy just a wee bit

Malcolm Turnbull: NO, now piss off.

Oh well, thinks John, I did try

It is detention of people with serious criminal convictions for crimes committed while living in Australia on special Visas.
I think Australia is well within its rights to deal with them as they see fit, whether Kiwis or not,as long as they meet normal human rights standards.

[craic]

From up here on the Murray River it was interesting to read the Australian side of the detention argument. All they refer to is the legal right to throw out non-citizens who cannot conform to the laws - not a word anywhere about the detention on Christmas Island or other places. And asking if anyone knew the football result (Blacks versus French) caused total confusion because "football" is AFL and the season has finished and Rugby is a place in England.

[Daytr]

That in a lot of cases is quite incorrect. What special visas are you referring to? My understanding is that applies to anyone that has been given a sentence of just over one year, who isn't an Australian citizen, which could be from multiple minor offences.
The fact these people are being sent to detention centers, quite often thousands of miles away from family and support before being deported is something that Britain did to colonize Australia two hundred years ago! Its not just Kiwis obviously either. Australia's record of in regards detention centers for all people detained is deplorable. In the Howard era they refused entry by the Red Cross which goes against UN convention. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but I haven't heard that its changed. Children in detention, families separated and detained for years on end, quite often in very harsh conditions out of the eye of media scrutiny. For a first world country to act this way is shameful.

It is detention of people with serious criminal convictions for crimes committed while living in Australia on special Visas.
I think Australia is well within its rights to deal with them as they see fit, whether Kiwis or not,as long as they meet normal human rights standards.

[Daytr]

By the way I like Malcolm Turnbull, but this is not a great start. Key, well he is just pathetic.

[iceman]

That in a lot of cases is quite incorrect. What special visas are you referring to? My understanding is that applies to anyone that has been given a sentence of just over one year, who isn't an Australian citizen, which could be from multiple minor offences.
The fact these people are being sent to detention centers, quite often thousands of miles away from family and support before being deported is something that Britain did to colonize Australia two hundred years ago! Its not just Kiwis obviously either. Australia's record of in regards detention centers for all people detained is deplorable. In the Howard era they refused entry by the Red Cross which goes against UN convention. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but I haven't heard that its changed. Children in detention, families separated and detained for years on end, quite often in very harsh conditions out of the eye of media scrutiny. For a first world country to act this way is shameful.

What is quote incorrect about it Daytr ? Are they not all convicted criminals ? None of them are Australian citizens so all have some sort of Visa or authorisation to stay in Australia and have committed serious crimes while doing so.
Labour with Kelvin Davis making a fool of himself are yet again barking up the wrong tree