If National wins ...

[Fred114]

This is a conservative reading of the role of the government, Craic and Iceman. Is there anything else we need in our upbringing to avoid dependency on the state? Is family the best place for getting a start in life?

[iceman]

This is a conservative reading of the role of the government, Craic and Iceman. Is there anything else we need in our upbringing to avoid dependency on the state? Is family the best place for getting a start in life?

I certainly believe a good family is indeed the best place for a good start and guidance in life.

[elZorro]

I certainly believe a good family is indeed the best place for a good start and guidance in life.

I don't think you'd find that is far away from Labour policy Iceman. According to the right-wingers, Labour can't get it right. If they make it too easy to stay on the dole, or create too many unproductive jobs, either way it's not 'real'.

Let's get back to facts. I don't think anyone likes being on the dole (unless they have some family support). I just have a quiet smile if I hear about a state-funded job that I don't understand the importance of. Most of that cash will be recycled into the nearby community, taxes and levies will be paid on it at each recycle, and the govt will get perhaps 50% of the funds back. No other group stands to do near as well from the transactions. That balances out the otherwise direct expense of unemployment and associated social costs. The rest of the country benefit from increased spend, in the retail and service sectors. So increased employment in the public sector is not the enemy, it's not a drain on the taxpayer, it's usually very good news. Labour showed that in their last 9-year stint, the data is there to see at Statistics NZ. Everybody did well.

A bit of humour from Monty Python's Flying Circus, this is at Craic's prompting.

[BIRMANBOY]

I'm ashamed of you EZ...your pythonesque reference is hardly what one would expect from a Labour stalwart. Very disapointing!!

I don't think you'd find that is far away from Labour policy Iceman. According to the right-wingers, Labour can't get it right. If they make it too easy to stay on the dole, or create too many unproductive jobs, either way it's not 'real'.

Let's get back to facts. I don't think anyone likes being on the dole (unless they have some family support). I just have a quiet smile if I hear about a state-funded job that I don't understand the importance of. Most of that cash will be recycled into the nearby community, taxes and levies will be paid on it at each recycle, and the govt will get perhaps 50% of the funds back. No other group stands to do near as well from the transactions. That balances out the otherwise direct expense of unemployment and associated social costs. The rest of the country benefit from increased spend, in the retail and service sectors. So increased employment in the public sector is not the enemy, it's not a drain on the taxpayer, it's usually very good news. Labour showed that in their last 9-year stint, the data is there to see at Statistics NZ. Everybody did well.

A bit of humour from Monty Python's Flying Circus, this is at Craic's prompting.

[elZorro]

I'm ashamed of you EZ...your pythonesque reference is hardly what one would expect from a Labour stalwart. Very disapointing!!

Very perceptive, actually it's my wife who is the Python fan. I'm never sure how she votes.

I understand what other posters are saying, relative to the world population, we're doing well, nothing to grumble about. Well, we should be in a good position, we've only just got here in recent geological time, the climate is good, we have good education provided, and we haven't completely wrecked the place with overpopulation yet.

All the more reason to be unhappy with the fact that 7% of those who'd like to work here, can't, because there are less jobs going around. That profits are down almost across the board, so taxes are down, and govt services are being screwed down to match the lower income. This is the sort of time when businesses and enterprises, prompted by the govt, should get moving, sideways if necessary, into new areas with better profits.

So we look to the govt for a lead, and what do we see? For example, Novopay and Callaghan Innovation, so screwed down with tight finances, they can't do the very job they were set up to do.

[craic]

Where in the world do you get the idea that someone has to employ you - that some other person or organisation has to set up a business and pay you to work in it? The reality is that we are all responsible for our own and our families survival If you do not have the wherewithall to provide and survive one of the successful ones MAY offer you help, financially or otherwise, in exchange for some labour or other favour. Taking from the rich and giving to the poor doesn't work.
(QUOTE)
"All the more reason to be unhappy with the fact that 7% of those who'd like to work here, can't, because there are less jobs going around. That profits are down almost across the board, so taxes are down, and govt services are being screwed down to match the lower income. This is the sort of time when businesses and enterprises, prompted by the govt, should get moving, sideways if necessary, into new areas with better profits.

So we look to the govt for a lead, and what do we see? For example, Novopay and Callaghan Innovation, so screwed down with tight finances, they can't do the very job they were set up to do.[/QUOTE]

[fungus pudding]

Very perceptive, actually it's my wife who is the Python fan. I'm never sure how she votes.

I understand what other posters are saying, relative to the world population, we're doing well, nothing to grumble about. Well, we should be in a good position, we've only just got here in recent geological time, the climate is good, we have good education provided, and we haven't completely wrecked the place with overpopulation yet.

All the more reason to be unhappy with the fact that 7% of those who'd like to work here, can't, because there are less jobs going around.So we look to the govt for a lead, and what do we see? For example, Novopay and Callaghan Innovation, so screwed down with tight finances, they can't do the very job they were set up to do.

A couple of points: Yes - we are doing well relatively and will do miles better as world recovers - that is as long as no political party gets into power that wants to 'fix' things. Prime concern there is Labour/Green, or their chief interferers, Parker,Cunliffe and Russel. Education standards are poor - ask a school leaver to write a letter, or do the simplest mental mathematical equation. We are under-populated, although I have much sympathy for Enoch Powell's view.
And it would be remiss of me not ask in what way are these jobs you say are going around, 'less'? .

[elZorro]

A couple of points: Yes - we are doing well relatively and will do miles better as world recovers - that is as long as no political party gets into power that wants to 'fix' things. Prime concern there is Labour/Green, or their chief interferers, Parker,Cunliffe and Russel. Education standards are poor - ask a school leaver to write a letter, or do the simplest mental mathematical equation. We are under-populated, although I have much sympathy for Enoch Powell's view.
And it would be remiss of me not ask in what way are these jobs you say are going around, 'less'? .

It would be remiss of me, in turn, to not research the Rivers of Blood Speech.

Is that where Don Brash got his ideas from? It nearly worked for him too.

The number of jobs available is not keeping up with the increase in population here, and the pay is being screwed down for new positions.
'
So yes, I hope Parker, Cunliffe and Norman interfere a small amount and try out some ideas, because unemployment, 'it's not working'.

[Major von Tempsky]

Interesting how the market actually solved Obama's jobs problem and none of his job creation schemes worked....

[craic]

I will waste my time again and suggest that unemployment doesn't exist - except in the socialist philosophy. A large section of the worlds population spend thei time hunting, fishing, building shelters and protecting threir families - they are not unemployed. A second section set up and run enterprises that profit them greatly by utilising the needs of others in exchange for a portion of their returns - they are not unemployed. A third group spend their time hunting, fishing, growing and building etc. and seeking to share the returns of the second section in exchange for bartered labour, they are not unemployed. The remainder sit on their arses on street corners seeking mana from heaven or the government - they are losers.

I had a fellow once on probation to me who was suddenly in the second category and I asked him what he was doing about it. He told me that he was getting up every morning and walking the length of Marine Parade with a sack, collecting bottles and cans and anything else he could find including money. He did very well from the drunken revelries of the night before, particulary on weekends. But it didn't last, people pay good money for that kind of enterprise.