If National wins ...

[Logen Ninefingers]

Cheer up Ninefingers. You're as negative as poor old eZ! At least you've got seven more fingers than those who wave at you.

Realism is just condemned as negativity. We are conditioned to have silly Left vs Right debates where everyone is pigeon-holed in ideological boxes. Tentative little debates about flags and marae visits, name-calling, poems and limericks.
When someone says take the blinkers off and have a look at the true state of things...."ooeerr - you're being NEGATIVE".
We are all expected to keep smiling through the bull****, keep saying everything is great, spar at each other with toothpicks about nothing.

Corporate conditioning. Pike River mentality all over again. No managers spoke up and told the truth about what was going on, too afraid to lose they well paid jobs, too gutless to challenge their superiors. Corporate conditioning.
Virtually no shareholders asked what was happening despite all the signs and the repeated capital raisings. Information was there about the short-cutting. Dissenting voices were howled down. Greed and intellectual & moral cowardice reigning supreme.

[BlackPeter]

Realism is just condemned as negativity. We are conditioned to have silly Left vs Right debates where everyone is pigeon-holed in ideological boxes. Tentative little debates about flags and marae visits, name-calling, poems and limericks.
When someone says take the blinkers off and have a look at the true state of things...."ooeerr - you're being NEGATIVE".
We are all expected to keep smiling through the bull****, keep saying everything is great, spar at each other with toothpicks about nothing.

Corporate conditioning. Pike River mentality all over again. No managers spoke up and told the truth about what was going on, too afraid to lose they well paid jobs, too gutless to challenge their superiors. Corporate conditioning.
Virtually no shareholders asked what was happening despite all the signs and the repeated capital raisings. Information was there about the short-cutting. Dissenting voices were howled down. Greed and intellectual & moral cowardice reigning supreme.

Ah well, I guess so far we have only seen negativity coming from you. Just being miserable and complaining about everything did never in the past improve things ... being constructive, positive and resolving issues however does.

Just wondering - (assuming you live in NZ) you live in one of the best countries of the world: high standard of living, free and democratic system, little social & racial tensions, justice system getting it (ways) more often right than wrong, only limited over population problems and (rather) healthy environment and benign climate. If you disagree with any of these statements - just look anywhere else!

So let me ask you some question(s):
If not in NZ - where would you rather live?
Given that it is here (as you insist) so bad ... why are you not already gone wherever it is better?
Do you find as well at work and in your social circles that you are surrounded by "greed and mental & moral cowardice"?
Ever wondered, whether the problem might not be with the others?

Look, nothing human is perfect and there are lots of things we still could improve in NZ and the Western world. However - believe me - it does look much brighter, if you try to see as well the positive sides.

Ever wondered what you can do to improve the system (or at least your small circle) instead of just rubbishing everything?

[fungus pudding]

Ah well, I guess so far we have only seen negativity coming from you. Just being miserable and complaining about everything did never in the past improve things ... being constructive, positive and resolving issues however does.

Just wondering - (assuming you live in NZ) you live in one of the best countries of the world: high standard of living, free and democratic system, little social & racial tensions, justice system getting it (ways) more often right than wrong, only limited over population problems and (rather) healthy environment and benign climate. If you disagree with any of these statements - just look anywhere else!

So let me ask you some question(s):
If not in NZ - where would you rather live?
Given that it is here (as you insist) so bad ... why are you not already gone wherever it is better?
Do you find as well at work and in your social circles that you are surrounded by "greed and mental & moral cowardice"?
Ever wondered, whether the problem might not be with the others?

Look, nothing human is perfect and there are lots of things we still could improve in NZ and the Western world. However - believe me - it does look much brighter, if you try to see as well the positive sides.

Ever wondered what you can do to improve the system (or at least your small circle) instead of just rubbishing everything?

Yeah. I think we all know where the tenth finger is.

[BlackPeter]

Craic, it's the beginning of the end for National's reign when they're not invited to the marae. How embarrassing for John Key. The TPPA seems to be the crux of it. These are manufacturing jobs in NZ that are disappearing, they have an impact. Sit up and listen, National.

Raybon Kan on the tertiary policy and the TPPA, very funny.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...+February+2016

So - you mean the handful of self centred and selfish trouble makers and clowns far in the North determine who is running this country? EZ, last time I looked this was still a democracy. Yes, clowns do have a vote as well, but just one as everybody else.

Wouldn't it be embarrassing for them if John Key wouldn't bother to show up? I wouldn't, despite the fact that they of course did invite him:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11583922

Your information is, as usual, more driven by wishful thinking than by reality ....

Ah - and the TPPA ... given that pope Andrew did not have the time or urge to tell us what is wrong with it (I know, we just need more faith) - here is a summary:

http://www.tppfacts.nz/

Does not sound too bad - does it? Just remind me - who in their right mind would want to oppose such an agreement for cheap political gain?

[elZorro]

TPP facts, or TPP drivel from the National Party website? You could drive a truck through most of those arguments. Do some real research BP.

[BlackPeter]

TPP facts, or TPP drivel from the National Party website? You could drive a truck through most of those arguments. Do some real research BP.

EZ - if you don't believe me, just ask David Shearer or Phil Goff. And doing research - must be now your turn ... the only thing we heard so far from Labour re the TPPA is praise (from Goff, Shearer, Clark and Moore) and baseless and generic scaremongering from pope Andrew and the left wing lot without providing any real facts or evidence - and, ah yes, that they punish their own crowd if they dare to use their brains and come to the conclusion that the TPPA is good for NZ! LOL!

Just ask Pope Andrew, maybe he will give you an audience and provides you with some reason why you should oppose the TPPA ... otherwise, just stay quiet and believe ...

[elZorro]

EZ - if you don't believe me, just ask David Shearer or Phil Goff. And doing research - must be now your turn ... the only thing we heard so far from Labour re the TPPA is praise (from Goff, Shearer, Clark and Moore) and baseless and generic scaremongering from pope Andrew and the left wing lot without providing any real facts or evidence - and, ah yes, that they punish their own crowd if they dare to use their brains and come to the conclusion that the TPPA is good for NZ! LOL!

Just ask Pope Andrew, maybe he will give you an audience and provides you with some reason why you should oppose the TPPA ... otherwise, just stay quiet and believe ...

Come on, BP. Just yesterday I quickly used the web to refute that three out of the four Labour people were steadfastly behind the TPPA as it stands, for ideological reasons. And how can any person(s) predict what the numerical result of the TPPA will be in the year 2030? National can't even predict their tax take for 2015-2016 year, or next year. But it'll probably mean they've not taken in enough taxes to meet their clamped-down expenses, yet again. Any why? because as Logen says, the country is on its knees, and it'll probably get worse. Everywhere a business person looks, it's more competitive. Newsflash - small businesses employ staff, we're not getting much help out here, and the TPPA isn't designed to help small businesses. It's there to lock in profits for large corporates with multiple brands and IP.

W69, I hope you'll have a look in at the protest tomorrow, instead of catching a ferry to Waiheke on your gold card.

[Daytr]

This is interesting BLACKCAP. Do you think some in the Nats camp think that its a time for change in leadership?
Get someone right if centre who actually cares about NZs long term future & not just making money for the already wealthy & you might get my vote.
I just can't think of anyone in the Nat leadership that fits that description.

I dont think so. I am from the right (well normally) but I am fed up with the flag debate/change and have called HIM ShonKey on many occasions in jest with my partner etc. Does not mean that I will not vote National, probably will in the absence of another viable alternative, and the way Labour is going there is NO way I could vote for this bunch of rabble rubbish. But many in National's camp, are fed up with the flag referendum and think it is a vanity project as well.....

[fungus pudding]

I dont think so. I am from the right (well normally) but I am fed up with the flag debate/change and have called HIM ShonKey on many occasions in jest with my partner etc. Does not mean that I will not vote National, probably will in the absence of another viable alternative, and the way Labour is going there is NO way I could vote for this bunch of rabble rubbish. But many in National's camp, are fed up with the flag referendum and think it is a vanity project as well.....

How can anyone be fed up with the flag debate? Do people keep pestering you to debate it? You don't have to engage in any discussions, read any articles. You are free to ignore it although a voting paper will hit your letterbox. I cannot believe anyone can be so intolerant that a referendum will make them 'fed up'. I'm quite sure you are not. Can't say I know anyone in National's camp as you do, but it's not about parties anyway. It's about a flag.

[BlackPeter]

Come on, BP. Just yesterday I quickly used the web to refute that three out of the four Labour people were steadfastly behind the TPPA as it stands, for ideological reasons. And how can any person(s) predict what the numerical result of the TPPA will be in the year 2030? National can't even predict their tax take for 2015-2016 year, or next year. But it'll probably mean they've not taken in enough taxes to meet their clamped-down expenses, yet again. Any why? because as Logen says, the country is on its knees, and it'll probably get worse. Everywhere a business person looks, it's more competitive. Newsflash - small businesses employ staff, we're not getting much help out here, and the TPPA isn't designed to help small businesses. It's there to lock in profits for large corporates with multiple brands and IP.

...

Just remind me EZ - did you express the same severe concerns at the time aunt Helen signed the first free trade agreement with China? Remember - she signed away New Zealand's sovereignty long before aunt Helen and Phil Goff inititated the TPPA discussions which now have been concluded by a National led government - LOL.

Or did the Labour politburo forget to activate at that time your concerns?

Look - I can't really imagine that you feel comfortable to argue here for a bunch of hypocrites, but this is something you need to make up with yourself. I prefer to discuss with people who are allowed to express their own ideas instead of just parroting the silly believes of a bunch of left wing political fundamentalists, but than - I understand that you must be afraid of censorship from pope Andrew - or did you get a dispensation from him as well?

Just tell us - are you allowed to say what you think?

What this sad episode clearly shows is that Labour is in no way ready to govern. Not sure, whether your party reached already kindergarten level ... but wait - here is an idea - they say some old people behave again like children ... maybe the same thing happened to Little's old party - it is not growing up, it is just old and getting silly?

Preparing for the 2032 elections? Not sure though they might survive long enough - what do you think?