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  1. #1
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    Default Nobody worth voting for

    National flogging off the assets.Labour borrowing like crazy.Act with rear end Brash.
    NZ first, and Winstone.The greens, and farting cows. Good gawd guys is it just me or has the political system gone mad. The political system revolves on Govts borrowing like crazy wracking up unrepayable debt, to stay in power to keep the punters happy. It has reached the stage world wide where the whole monetry system is in danger of collapse.
    Solution.
    Run the country with a board of directors, like a company banning political parties. Each director being an expert in a given field. I would like to think that a business proven expert in a given occupation would have a stronger grasp on reality than the dummies that you lot are likely to vote in. I know in my field the billions of dollars lost in leaky homes simply because the rules were changed by people that havent a clue. Macdunk

  2. #2
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    Mac Dunk like the board of PRC or NOG amongst many others
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  3. #3
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    Selling assets down to 51% is fine with me as long as the funds are directed at infrastructure creation. New hospitals, schools etc. Saves borrowing money for these projects. If it is just to pay normal day to day spending then they shouldn't be sold.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by duncan macgregor View Post
    National flogging off the assets.Labour borrowing like crazy.Act with rear end Brash.
    NZ first, and Winstone.The greens, and farting cows. Good gawd guys is it just me or has the political system gone mad. The political system revolves on Govts borrowing like crazy wracking up unrepayable debt, to stay in power to keep the punters happy. It has reached the stage world wide where the whole monetry system is in danger of collapse.
    Solution.
    Run the country with a board of directors, like a company banning political parties. Each director being an expert in a given field. I would like to think that a business proven expert in a given occupation would have a stronger grasp on reality than the dummies that you lot are likely to vote in. I know in my field the billions of dollars lost in leaky homes simply because the rules were changed by people that havent a clue. Macdunk
    Maybe there is nobody worth voting for in your opinion. If you really believe that you must then at least accept that some are less worth voting for than others. I always use my vote to the greatest effect against the party I least like. This time around I will vote Act as it seems to be the best way of blocking Goff who I would not like to see as PM, and I think their economic policies are nonsense. So work out who you dislike more than others.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Maybe there is nobody worth voting for in your opinion. If you really believe that you must then at least accept that some are less worth voting for than others. I always use my vote to the greatest effect against the party I least like. This time around I will vote Act as it seems to be the best way of blocking Goff who I would not like to see as PM, and I think their economic policies are nonsense. So work out who you dislike more than others.
    That would depend on my location at the time. If in epsom I would vote national. I would then give my party vote to winstone to combat asset sales. That would get rid of Brash and winny the poo might save key from selling the assets. I dont think people are stupid enough to have a greenie labour Govt running the economy or lets hope not. My election enthusiasm is at an all time low so perhaps I will take your suggestion and use my vote as a protest. On the otherhand that might only encourage them. Its my opinion drastic changes are looming with numerous countries economies going under so lets hope whoever gets in has the guts to get this country back on track. Macdunk

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by duncan macgregor View Post
    That would depend on my location at the time. If in epsom I would vote national. I would then give my party vote to winstone to combat asset sales.
    Surely as an investor you can see the benefit of levering these assets and lifting the balance sheet. I reckon it's criminal to hold assets and never review the situation. It's illegal for pvt. trustees not to actively manage for the beneficial owner. There's huge opportunities with some dilligence aplied to these things.

  7. #7
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    Brent shearer disagreed because the cost of funds is 4% verses selling them at 7%. But what if our debt gets out of control under Labour and cost of funds gets over 7% like it just did in Italy.

    He also doesn't compare it to what the funds will go to instead. Provided it goes into infrastructure or SOEs where the the return is equally as high.

    My only criticism is that they want to sell 49% of all power cos. Why not keep 100% of the smallest one where they can keep the listed ones honest - you dont need 3 to do that.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by belgarion View Post
    A good idea? Really? Read what Brent Shearer has to say ...

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=10765463

    Still think it makes sense?
    Presumably you and Mr. Shearer think the govt. should stand in the market for the remainder of Air NZ. Any other NZ companies you want them to buy?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 777 View Post
    Selling assets down to 51% is fine with me as long as the funds are directed at infrastructure creation. New hospitals, schools etc. Saves borrowing money for these projects. If it is just to pay normal day to day spending then they shouldn't be sold.
    What do you think they're selling, if not Infrastructure ?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTM 3442 View Post
    What do you think they're selling, if not Infrastructure ?
    Exactly. In the same way pvt. investors, shares, real estate, and other equities sell assets to grow wealth.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Halebop's Avatar
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    As much as I'm enjoying the tax cut National gave me, I'm investing it, not spending it. While there may be a benefit to this, I'm not sure the billions in extra debt being incurred is worth the cost. Take the tax cut back and I'll accept a transfer of the infrastructure assets to the super fund or an infrastructure bank as a quid pro quo. The logic of lost earnings versus saved interest negates each other so I'm left with any level of foreign ownership of growing earnings being a worse balance of payments drag than debt that at least reduces with inflation.

    While I still favour National (or a strategic vote that assists National), Key's consummate skills as a trader are beginning to look more like there is no plan.

    If Labour used some better logic on capital gains (indexed, not 15% flat rated) I could be tempted to throw my lot that way. But I think a capital gains tax would need to be offset by lower income tax and I can't see that happening.

  12. #12
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    You don't want a plan, you want the markets to work so we can all improve our standard of living. Remember the Soviet Unions 5 year plans?

    If there is "nobody worth voting for" then you are saying you prefer communism or fascism or anarchy which is what you will get by default.

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    I agree with McT (I think). You dont need some big complex plan as it will be doomed to fail (especially if impletement by politians and govt servants). You want solid foundations and let the economy to sort it self out. Boring but true.

    That is why despite 63% of business leaders thinking Key has no plan, 98% want him in for the next term.

    In terms of Goff, while many may not like asset sales, I dont think many beleive in the alternative he is putting up, especially when you add in the Greens demands.

    I still think Key could have appeased many concerns but saying he would keep 100% of Genesis, at least for the next 3 year term. It is the smaller of the ones so the effect on debt is the lowest.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halebop View Post
    As much as I'm enjoying the tax cut National gave me, I'm investing it, not spending it. While there may be a benefit to this, I'm not sure the billions in extra debt being incurred is worth the cost. Take the tax cut back and I'll accept a transfer of the infrastructure assets to the super fund or an infrastructure bank as a quid pro quo. The logic of lost earnings versus saved interest negates each other so I'm left with any level of foreign ownership of growing earnings being a worse balance of payments drag than debt that at least reduces with inflation.

    While I still favour National (or a strategic vote that assists National), Key's consummate skills as a trader are beginning to look more like there is no plan.

    If Labour used some better logic on capital gains (indexed, not 15% flat rated) I could be tempted to throw my lot that way. But I think a capital gains tax would need to be offset by lower income tax and I can't see that happening.
    And it needs a repatriation clause, but Labour plans to copy the Australian model or per transaction basis. Huge problems with that.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Halebop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major von Tempsky View Post
    You don't want a plan, you want the markets to work so we can all improve our standard of living. Remember the Soviet Unions 5 year plans?

    If there is "nobody worth voting for" then you are saying you prefer communism or fascism or anarchy which is what you will get by default.
    I agree. So if Austrian is the plan - let's please enunciate that. So far the National government has appointed taxpayers as both the lender and insurer of last resort. Not very Austrian. It's the mixed mesages that leave me confused, not the meddling in the financial sectors. (And on the philosophy of economics, if we should have ensured financial stability by contrived mechanisms and intervention, then Austrian doesn't work). At the other end of the spectrum they stopped contributing towards the stability of my retirement by cutting the front loading toward super while incurring larger debts thanks to a tax cut. While I can save that tax gain, many won't. I can shrug and say bad luck them, but it will be my savings that get taxed to pay for their spending later on, probably by a labour government who will blame National for their lack of planning.

  16. #16
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    By default I be voting Green on Saturday for no other reason then tey seem to be the only sensible and rational part around

    Act knocked themselves out of the running when Brash and Banks god bless us came on the scene. NZ First never in the running for obvious reasons, Labour would never get my vote and this could be the end of this Party forever and National being the party with no big plan to get this country out of the crap doesn't deserve to be the government (unless you believe that throwing money at any problem that crops up is the way regardless of the consequences) .... and Key gives me the creeps as he slowly steals the country for his mates

    Sounds like the country is well and truely stuffed if we rely on the politicians to save the day .... maybe the Greens can make the rest see sense

  17. #17
    Senior Member Halebop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    By default I be voting Green on Saturday for no other reason then tey seem to be the only sensible and rational part around

    Act knocked themselves out of the running when Brash and Banks god bless us came on the scene. NZ First never in the running for obvious reasons, Labour would never get my vote and this could be the end of this Party forever and National being the party with no big plan to get this country out of the crap doesn't deserve to be the government (unless you believe that throwing money at any problem that crops up is the way regardless of the consequences) .... and Key gives me the creeps as he slowly steals the country for his mates

    Sounds like the country is well and truely stuffed if we rely on the politicians to save the day .... maybe the Greens can make the rest see sense
    Screw it, you've convinced me. You're also evoking memories of the only politician I've played hacky-sack with.

  18. #18
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    Halebop - hacky sack!!!! - dare I ask who with?

  19. #19
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    We appear to be on the cusp of a major fundamental structural political change - Greens displacing Labour as the second political party. Australia has already arrived at this point according to some polls earlier this year.

    Unfortunately it won't be until 2014 in NZ.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    Halebop - hacky sack!!!! - dare I ask who with?
    I so want to say Bill English but it was Nandor Tanczos - like you needed to ask!

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