TSK - TASK Group Holdings

[Baa_Baa]

I Wonder why the Company hasn't told the shareholders how much Money the Global McDonalds' announcement is Worth.
Presumably they Know.

I would hazard a guess that they literally don't know, as it can't be assumed that every McD's franchise will (or is mandated) to take up the Vmob solution. It seems more probable that the Global entity secures a master agreement with Vmob that franchises may draw-down on, though not necessarily that all will, and those that do rollout the Vmob solution over time. Pure speculation on my part however, I'd favour that scenario with a surprise to the upside, than assuming every franchise takes up the solution and be disappointed on the downside.

[axe]

The question is can this company make the transition from being a baddoor dog to a company that stands on its own merits. The old dogs are still hanging on to the share register but the company is making some wins so maybe they see a future success (otherwise why weren't they selling down when it hit 5c? or were they?).

Time will tell but the contracts sound promising. they just need to turn them into Revenue with a good GP margin.

I wonder if some were buying on small volumes on the way up to 5c ..........

[Baa_Baa]

There's a concise summary, straight to the key points, nicely put Harvey. The signs are that VML's transition is happening and probably surprising even the most optimistic. Who expected them to sign McD's global?

The question is as you say Harvey, can they turn the contracts into revenue and profit? We won't know until we are told about their ability to implement, to convert 'wins' into paying customers. We don't know their ambition for growth either. When we do, we can better understand the timeframe to profit. Even XRO ended up misleading their shareholders with "profit by 2011" yeah right!

This is what makes VML speculative. The product viability question appears to be behind them, that in itself is a major milestone. VML though has some important questions to answer in due course, providing guidance to the market. They will know what those questions are. The larger shareholders won't stand forever being starved of tangible information, let alone the minions.

For my own part, I can live with the risk. It doesn't keep me awake at night and I'm also enjoying seeing VML fire up. My situation may not be atypical as I waited a long time before entering and accumulating at what I hope will be at or around the bottom, hence already very profitable .. on paper.

People will DYODD etc ..

The question is can this company make the transition from being a baddoor dog to a company that stands on its own merits. The old dogs are still hanging on to the share register but the company is making some wins so maybe they see a future success (otherwise why weren't they selling down when it hit 5c? or were they?).

Time will tell but the contracts sound promising. they just need to turn them into Revenue with a good GP margin.

[Baa_Baa]

A nod to BFG, and his able assistant providing Balance? Your overview of some of the players and their past performance is enlightening indeed, particularly summarised as succinctly as you have done. I appreciate better now the basis of your concerns and presumably your reasons why you personally wouldn't invest. For my part, those concerns don't outweigh my interest to invest in the opportunity that VML presents, but I respect (both) of your views.

[BFG]

A nod to BFG, and his able assistant providing Balance? Your overview of some of the players and their past performance is enlightening indeed, particularly summarised as succinctly as you have done. I appreciate better now the basis of your concerns and presumably your reasons why you personally wouldn't invest. For my part, those concerns don't outweigh my interest to invest in the opportunity that VML presents, but I respect (both) of your views.

No input from Balance, but another knowledgeable and respected member with their ear to the ground and nose in the air

[Baa_Baa]

We are fortunate to have a variety of views here. I recall reading a post BFG, that quoted you in your past life as Moosie, it was along the lines of be careful "being fast and loose with peoples reputations". The downside of changing nom de plumes and deleting your posts is, it appears, that where one is quoted here, ones comments remain on record, not to mention backups. I hope for your sake that you have covered your proverbial and have expert legal representation in case you need it. For that matter one wonders if ST is implicated if comments hosted here are construed, or misconstrued, as libellous? Sticking it up the money is bold for sure. I guess you've carefully considered that though? Don't be the fall guy ok, be careful about being used or manipulated as well, you just never know peoples motivations when it comes to money.

No input from Balance, but another knowledgeable and respected member with their ear to the ground and nose in the air

[klid]

Can I sit back now and wait until Tim sells and just take the cue that it's time?

[BFG]

We are fortunate to have a variety of views here. I recall reading a post BFG, that quoted you in your past life as Moosie, it was along the lines of be careful "being fast and loose with peoples reputations". The downside of changing nom de plumes and deleting your posts is, it appears, that where one is quoted here, ones comments remain on record, not to mention backups. I hope for your sake that you have covered your proverbial and have expert legal representation in case you need it. For that matter one wonders if ST is implicated if comments hosted here are construed, or misconstrued, as libellous? Sticking it up the money is bold for sure. I guess you've carefully considered that though? Don't be the fall guy ok, be careful about being used or manipulated as well, you just never know peoples motivations when it comes to money.

I have expert legal advice

I also have thought through my words much more carefully than in past years. Can you point me to anything libellous/false/misleading that I have posted? Didn't think so. Everything is based on facts and previous history/actions of said people. You may hate it being a holder, it may be negative (?), but it sure ain't sue'able! And I have every right to say it to protect others.

[Joshuatree]

Thanks BFG for that.A most excellent piece. Although i haven't verified it for myself and we all need to; chalky would be proud. What I've observed over the years is how naively trusting investors are when researching a company. Often no investigation of management history / success/failure is done at all ; and they /we /I believe/d all the positive spin that comes out . The management , their history and credibility; their successes ; their alignment and placing their shareholders beside them are paramount and ahead of anything else when looking at investing in any company.

I have written this piece up (with the help of another member) that will helpfully inform those considering an investment in VMob so they are fully informed as to its history, as well as the blue sky potential that some are suggesting awaits the company due to its recent announcements. (Baa Baa, please read carefully!)

VMob started its life off as a horse racing breeder company called Strathmore Group Limited in the late 1980s. However, Strathmore succumbed to whatever ills it caught in the late 1980s and early 1990s, and the listed entity went through a number of reverse takeovers. Between the 1990s and now, it was known under a few names, including Velo Capital, Media Technology Group Limited (of which Phil Norman was a director), and eventually VMob Group as of mid 2012.

There have been a number of colourful people involved in VMob that shareholders should be aware of before considering investing in VMob:

- The main investor/banker is John Sorensen via Snakk Trustee Limited, who of course has been an investors in Plus SMS, Truscreen, Snakk Media, Baboom and Mega Ltd (through his vehicle VIG Limited). He has been involved in a number of companies dating all the way back to Rainbow Corporation in the 1980s. His speciality is buying up very cheap assets, getting them listed, and then exiting at big profits while new investors pick up the risk.

- Other investors include Laddara Pty Ltd (of Australia). These are the Higgins brothers, who own a large painting and contracting firm in Melbourne. They were large investors in the mangled wreckage of Plus SMS Ltd, as well as Snakk Media, Orion Minerals Group and Mega Limited.

- Sean Joyce, director of Vmob, Orion Minerals, Truscreen as well as Plus SMS and more. Joyce’s business used to be called Corporate Counsel, but is now called CM Partners. He specialises in listing penny dreadfuls, and has acted for Sorensen interests many times in the past. Listings and reverse takeovers he has been involved includes names like Seadragon, Snakk Media, Eastern HiFi, Dominion Finance, NZ Finance, Jasons Travel, National Mail, RIS, Feverpitch, ICP Bio and Zintel.

- Brett Wilkinson, who was also part of the Plus SMS wreckage, was involved in Orion Minerals plus other companies listed by Joyce, and is now advising investors at Vulcan Capital.

- The one shining light is Phil Norman, who to his credit, can call himself the inaugural chairman of Xero, so far a huge success story in NZ. It is also worth noting though that he is now Sean Joyce’s business partner at CM Partners Ltd, which is a corporate advisory for small companies looking for capital.

So what of these companies?

Plus SMS has to be one of the worst-ever companies to grace the NZX since the 1987 share market crash wiped out the worst of the 1980s. In short, they made misleading statements to allegedly allow insiders to pump and dump the stock. But rather than re-litigate their entire history here, you can read it all at the following links:
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/plus-sm...un-deep-103750
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/history...listing-121166
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-t...Plus-SMS-story
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=10753959

Truscreen is a newly listed company selling a product which had chewed through several tens of millions of Australian dollars before failing a few years back. The wreckage was picked up by John Sorensen for peanuts value, dusted off, and then backended into Truscreen late last year. A company whose assets were perhaps valued at less than $20,000 is now in a company worth $18m. This has been covered in quite some detail on teh TRU thread, but Chalkie makes an excellent case for why extreme caution needs to be exercised:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opin...e-share-appeal

Orion Minerals - this mining company doesn’t do any mining anymore. It appears Mr Jacomb was persuaded to put up capital by his good (ex-)friend Ken Wikeley in order to finance a ground-breaking new drill piece and procedure that was going to make them millions. Turns out it was pretty much a scam and the entire thing went to court for years. It owns some scrap metals businesses in Melbourne. It doesn’t appear to have made a profit at any point, and Mr Sorenson was also involved quite heavily:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opin...verse-listings

The repeated inclusion of these individuals and others in numerous penny dreadfuls with appalling track records of shareholder wealth destruction and bad governance suggests that more of the same is at least a possibility at the other companies they are involved in.

This is why it is important to heavily discount any news coming from VMob about successful contracts, particularly given the Plus SMS background which mimics VMob in several ways.

The same people who promoted and benefitted from the Plus SMS debacle are the same people who are promoting and benefitting from "global contracts” in Vmob. (Note well: the Vmob contract announcement the other day comes without any revenue figures, or any meaningful way to assess the real price sensitivity of the announcement.)

The same people who have promoted uncapitalised small companies with slim prospect by “blue sky potential", are the same who then sell down at highly inflated levels .

The same people who oversaw capital raises for some of the worst NZ corporate wreckages are the same people who are raising capital in Vmob (subject now to concerns being consider by the FMA - without anyone having filed a complaint to date, no less!).

Maybe Vmob will hit it out of the park. Maybe they will be well capitalised. Maybe they have superior management and the governance will surprise us with their vision and prudence. Maybe Vmob will be a great success.

But for this great success, investors will need to weigh up the histories of Plus SMS, Orion Minerals, Snakk, Truscreen, and a whole host of other poor and awful entities, and work out whether they as the Johnny-come-lately-investors are the means by which others profit from.

The risky vs reward scenario here is very clear here if you buy: YOU take the risk and THEY take the reward. As Balance likes to say; Heads they win, Tails you lose.\

Be careful out there people...

[Baa_Baa]

Hey BFG, welcome back. It's been quiet here for a few days without you.

I was genuinely concerned for you, not that you actually took the bait and put all those names in a public forum, but how brazenly you did it, with only a wafer thin veneer of protection for yourself. Volunteering to be a mouthpiece is one thing, but it's your decision who you choose as enemies. This thread needs you though, it will keep the worry-warts, newbies and those lacking the knowledge or ability to form their own opinion, away from VMob. I look forward to how your perspective develops as VMob develops itself.

For my own part, your persistent alarms and Balance's supporting warnings have helped me pause for thought. It's good to pause and think. While not a cathartic experience, I have concluded, or reaffirmed, that for me personally, VMob is a better company than the ones you deride. VMob has better product, better market, better position, better timing, with much better opportunity. In addition, the names you despise really only want to make their fortune, like so many others here and they won't be quitting early, I think they know that VMob is the one.

All the best, I'll continue accumulating VMob, as I really do think it's has the potential to be a great NZ tech success story and I want to be a part of it.

BAA

I have expert legal advice

I also have thought through my words much more carefully than in past years. Can you point me to anything libellous/false/misleading that I have posted? Didn't think so. Everything is based on facts and previous history/actions of said people. You may hate it being a holder, it may be negative (?), but it sure ain't sue'able! And I have every right to say it to protect others.