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Thread: ZEL - Z Energy.

  1. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    NZ is a small market a long distance from suppliers. Are they factoring that into international comparisons?
    Whangarei isn't that far.

    Drive a smaller, more fuel efficient vehicle and not a SUV. No need for an electric car.

  2. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    ...
    On the subject of Z they are consistently the main offender in the surrounding suburbs where I live in having the most expensive fuel. This consistency is remarkable in its durability and has been going on for years. The thrust of their marketing about doing good under the hood and appealing to the public's sense of nationalist pride that they're a Kiwi company looking after Kiwi's or words to that effect is about as disingenuous as advertising ever gets in my opinion.
    The same loaf of bread costs more in my local Countdown than in the local Pak 'n Save. The dairy down the road charges more than another dairy in the next block.

    If the Z stations consistently charge more than others in the surrounding 'burbs - I wonder how do they stay in business? Perhaps they have the best ancillary services, shop etc? Good locations with expensive lease costs? I doubt it is just because of blind patriotism....but if that helps, NZ companies need all the help they can get because I think we seem to retain precious few in NZ hands.

    Disc: Own ZEL bonds
    Last edited by Bjauck; 09-10-2018 at 06:40 PM.

  3. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rep View Post
    J

    I do agree that higher fuel prices do see changes to patronage of public transport but often the hardest hit by fuel taxes are not those that who really have choices readily available to them. And it would take a lot of price signalling for me to switch from my second hand petrol SUV to a similar sized EV SUV - much more than most households will cope with.
    This is the normal persons reaction i think, there is a huge resistance to change whether it be sharing a ride sometimes or planning one trip instead of many,or switching to more efficient vehicles etc. I take it you havn't considered your own carbon footprint here Rep or totally disbelieve global warming(latest update out below which is pretty grim)?. There seems to be a total disconnect , block out of the inconvenient truth that we are polluting our world as we drive and that we must change a lifetime habit.

    Im interested in how we can overcome this denial/ refusal about what is happening and the fact changing our lifetime behaviours will make a difference and set examples for others to have that lightbulb moment. A bit like our home is our castle/ domain and that is sacred; with our vehicles too, something that empowers us or just habit and convienience and a bit of personal control?

    It would take something more then a lot of price switching for you/us to change. What could that be? something more powerful, more cathartic then having to put say $20 extra in the tank. Its like we cant complete the picture because some of the numbers are missing, but they actually are right there staring us in the face.

    Why aren't we taking responsibility?

    We accepted carless days some time ago.

    Paris agreement goal still achievable, but requires unprecedented change - report
    Last edited by Joshuatree; 09-10-2018 at 06:18 PM.

  4. #464
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    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...y-crusade.html

    The PM is quoted as saying there is profiteering! Sadly, the yield I get from my z shares is the lowest out of all my investments (apart from SUM). So if there is profiteering going on, I'm missing my cut

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profiteering_(business)
    Last edited by Bobdn; 09-10-2018 at 06:52 PM.

  5. #465
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    ...
    We accepted carless days some time ago.
    ...
    I agree - Like GST, fuel tax is another regressive tax hitting the poor disproportionately.

    Didn't car less days favour multi-car families. Poorer families with one car suffered disproportionately. Auckland is built around the private car. Poorer families tend to be in rental accommodation in far flung suburbs. They may also have to work in shifts and have to move from job to job and house to house. Trying to organise and re-organise shared transport or public transport would be difficult. There have been generations of inaction in establishing a decent public transport network. Instead we rely on imported fuel and imported cars.

    I agree we should phase out our reliance on fossil fuels but there needs to be an affordable alternative.
    Last edited by Bjauck; 09-10-2018 at 07:07 PM.

  6. #466
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    [QUOTE]We accepted carless days some time ago.
    [QUOTE]

    I don't know about that word "accepted".

    As I recall, the country couldn't afford to pay for the fuel without some form of rationing! A TINA situation.

  7. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    This is the normal persons reaction i think, there is a huge resistance to change whether it be sharing a ride sometimes or planning one trip instead of many,or switching to more efficient vehicles etc. I take it you havn't considered your own carbon footprint here Rep or totally disbelieve global warming(latest update out below which is pretty grim)?. There seems to be a total disconnect , block out of the inconvenient truth that we are polluting our world as we drive and that we must change a lifetime habit.

    Im interested in how we can overcome this denial/ refusal about what is happening and the fact changing our lifetime behaviours will make a difference and set examples for others to have that lightbulb moment. A bit like our home is our castle/ domain and that is sacred; with our vehicles too, something that empowers us or just habit and convienience and a bit of personal control?

    It would take something more then a lot of price switching for you/us to change. What could that be? something more powerful, more cathartic then having to put say $20 extra in the tank. Its like we cant complete the picture because some of the numbers are missing, but they actually are right there staring us in the face.

    Why aren't we taking responsibility?

    We accepted carless days some time ago.

    Paris agreement goal still achievable, but requires unprecedented change - report
    JT - I’m indicating you can appeal to hearts and minds but price signals change behaviour. The issue is that the economics of changing out of my petrol SUV to an equivalent EV vehicle are astonishingly difficult to justify against all the other considerations I have in the hierarchy. Don’t get me wrong I don’t dispute climate change and no one generally wants to ruin the planet but you ask most folk about what matters and it’s back to Maslow - housing, food, security, rest.

    I don’t dispute the matters at hand but for the economic equation for me to be compelling then it would create price signals and economics that would hit the poorest persons of our community the hardest. You can’t expect the poorest to be burdened with the greatest proportional toll or you will see that missing million at the ballot box.

  8. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    The same loaf of bread costs more in my local Countdown than in the local Pak 'n Save. The dairy down the road charges more than another dairy in the next block.

    If the Z stations consistently charge more than others in the surrounding 'burbs - I wonder how do they stay in business? Perhaps they have the best ancillary services, shop etc? Good locations with expensive lease costs? I doubt it is just because of blind patriotism....but if that helps, NZ companies need all the help they can get because I think we seem to retain precious few in NZ hands.

    Disc: Own ZEL bonds
    The reasons are simple, one is called market dominance. The Commerce commission should never have allowed the merger of Caltex and Z, Caltex is owned by Z for those that don't know. They dominate certain geographic area's and its simply not worth driving further to get cheaper gas for many customers.

    Creative marketing is another reason, doing good in the hood, supporting communities and supporting a Kiwi owned company all sound good.

    Thirdly their shops are generally pretty good, but customers are paying for that.

    Another reason is their tie up's with incentive programs like Flybuys and supermarket discount vouchers, they're arguably the best operator when it comes to incentives.

    They don't sell 98 Octane fuel so are never going to be on my radar as my vehicle needs that, (so I really don't care much other than their patriotic marketing is arguably the most disingenuous of the lot so I find it irksome when I have to watch it on telly) but I can't help noticing that their fuel price signs are consistently the most expensive of the surrounding burbs where I live. Interestingly its not just my bias either, I was discussing this with one of my best mates this morning who lives in a completely different part of Auckland and I asked who is the worst offender, BP, Mobil or Z in the burbs around where he lives.

    Plain and simple, in my opinion the Commerce Commission got the Z and Caltex merger badly wrong and this has significantly reduced fuel competition.

    On another related subject Cindy wonders why the petrol companies are fleecing us and they most certainly are able aided and abetted by Labours grossly excessive new fuel taxes...her comments are also morally repugnant because its her Government that has just allowed additional petrol taxes for Auckland motorists of a whopping 15 cents per litre...while they're running a 5.5 billion dollar surplus !
    Last edited by Beagle; 10-10-2018 at 09:15 AM.
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  9. #469
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    I have an AA card which I use at the local Caltex...makes my fuel cheaper than elsewhere. So certainly good marketing and business. The AA/Countdown card is a good one too,imo.

    I don’t know of many areas in Auckland where Z/Caltex are so dominant that you cannot easily find during your weekly routine a different fuel company to use. (More rural areas would be a different matter.) I think fuel fuel taxes are needed to pay for Auckland roads to cope with its expanding size. Previous governments and councils could have ensured that public transport and roading/infrastructure kept up with Auckland immigration by raising finance for works by other means. However it was left to become an urgent situation...

  10. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    I have an AA card which I use at the local Caltex...makes my fuel cheaper than elsewhere. So certainly good marketing and business. The AA/Countdown card is a good one too,imo.

    I don’t know of many areas in Auckland where Z/Caltex are so dominant that you cannot easily find during your weekly routine a different fuel company to use. (More rural areas would be a different matter.) I think fuel fuel taxes are needed to pay for Auckland roads to cope with its expanding size. Previous governments and councils could have ensured that public transport and roading/infrastructure kept up with Auckland immigration by raising finance for works by other means. However it was left to become an urgent situation...
    My observation in Auckland is that we have a Gull nearby so most of the Servos are matching the pump price - add the 6c (and regular 10c on Smiles Day) discount for Mobil Smiles or the 6c off the New World/Z pricing and it's markedly cheaper due to competitive pressure. Same would probably apply for BP with AA rewards too.

    BTW I have used 95RON and 98RON ULP in the past and we have done enough real world testing with similar routes, loads, traffic conditions and average speeds on open road driving vs 91RON ULP to indicate that there is a small but measurable differential in fuel economy but insufficient to cover the differential in per litre pricing. When it comes to urban driving, the differential in economy is non-existent between 91/95/98 RON so my observation is if your car can take 91 RON use it noting that lots of Euros and cars with small displacement forced induction (super/turbocharged) engines probably need to use 95 RON minimum. I also noted when supply was an issue with the Marsden/Wiri pipeline, 95/98 outages were more common than 91.

    However, depreciation remains the most significant real world running cost esp for a new car not fuel or even the rising cost of repairs and insurance (I can also see that some hi-spec new cars with sensors incorporated into windscreens for adaptive cruise, AEB, heads up and other driver aids are going to end up with no longer having no excess for windscreen replacement)

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