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20-04-2015, 07:27 PM
#1021
Member
Firstly I think the notification date is 31st of July and it has to be a positive notification, i.e. if they say nothing it drops of . I do not think anyone else can supply at the prices Tiwai want and make aprofit. A domestic customer in NZ pays 26-28c/Kwhr, an industrial about 8- 10 c/Kwhr and tiwai about 3c/Kwhr.after paying for the very high transmission security they have.
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20-04-2015, 08:52 PM
#1022
Originally Posted by horus1
Firstly I think the notification date is 31st of July and it has to be a positive notification, i.e. if they say nothing it drops of . I do not think anyone else can supply at the prices Tiwai want and make aprofit. A domestic customer in NZ pays 26-28c/Kwhr, an industrial about 8- 10 c/Kwhr and tiwai about 3c/Kwhr.after paying for the very high transmission security they have.
Those numbers appear accurate. But a consumer has the network and transmission costs hidden in that 26 - 28 c/kwh (Wish we could it that cheap in Central Otago), whereas the commercial users pay those network and transmission costs seperately. I would be very surprised if any other company will step in and supply Tiwai with energy as cheap as they wish. Only Meridian have a hope of supplying at those low prices.
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20-04-2015, 09:34 PM
#1023
Originally Posted by Jantar
Those numbers appear accurate. But a consumer has the network and transmission costs hidden in that 26 - 28 c/kwh (Wish we could it that cheap in Central Otago), whereas the commercial users pay those network and transmission costs seperately. I would be very surprised if any other company will step in and supply Tiwai with energy as cheap as they wish. Only Meridian have a hope of supplying at those low prices.
Interesting, do you mind me filling some gaps? I think you're implying that MEL is more likely to retain the whole supply contract, than the balance of 172kw going elsewhere, assuming the smelter doesn't bail out, and if that's the case nothing changes?
It does seem unlikely that another company can or will materialise a 172kw excess to supply the smelter at a heavy discount to wholesale (there's two big leaps of faith there), creating the opportunity for MEL to on sell existing 172kw capacity overage at a premium on the current price they get from the smelter.
Is this all a storm in a teacup?
disc: holding MELCA soon to be MEL
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20-04-2015, 09:47 PM
#1024
Originally Posted by Baa_Baa
Interesting, do you mind me filling some gaps? I think you're implying that MEL is more likely to retain the whole supply contract, than the balance of 172kw going elsewhere, assuming the smelter doesn't bail out, and if that's the case nothing changes?....
I wouldn't like to speculate on what the smelter might do. I suspect Meridian would be happy if the smelter decide to reduce their operation by 1 potline and come down to 400 MW.
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20-04-2015, 10:04 PM
#1025
Originally Posted by Jantar
I wouldn't like to speculate on what the smelter might do. I suspect Meridian would be happy if the smelter decide to reduce their operation by 1 potline and come down to 400 MW.
That sounds like a great win/win scenario jantar.
There does look like there will be some uncertainty leading up to the 31st of july(closer than many of us thought) which may affect the s/p.
Great to get some discussion here at last guys;thank you
Last edited by Joshuatree; 21-04-2015 at 07:57 AM.
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21-04-2015, 07:31 AM
#1026
Member
Jantar . Those prices are for energy only. It shows how domestic customers are being ripped off. When batteries arrive it all changes. Generator/retailer shares are VERY risky
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21-04-2015, 12:36 PM
#1027
Hadn't considered batteries in the short to medium term.Do you mean like Batteries storing cheaper night energy to use during the day?Can you give any more info there horus and what time frame are you talking about; cheers JT
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21-04-2015, 01:37 PM
#1028
Originally Posted by horus1
Jantar . Those prices are for energy only. It shows how domestic customers are being ripped off. When batteries arrive it all changes. Generator/retailer shares are VERY risky
The prices for Tiwai and industrial users are indeed energy only, but the retail prices include the network and transmission charges. There are only two areas in all of New Zealand where retail customers pay their network charges sperately from their main supplier's bill. However major industrial users are billed seperately, and even smaller industrial users have their network charges shown seperately on their bill.
As for battery technology making gentailer shares risky, I'm very happy to take that risk for another decade at least.
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21-04-2015, 01:53 PM
#1029
Cheap, long life, high capacity, safe electricity storage batteries will promote distributed generation domestic electricity self-sufficiency. Not cheap or long life atm. Watch for progress on the aluminium battery in the news recently. Medium-long term scenario 10-25yr imo
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21-04-2015, 01:57 PM
#1030
Originally Posted by Joshuatree
Hadn't considered batteries in the short to medium term.Do you mean like Batteries storing cheaper night energy to use during the day?Can you give any more info there horus and what time frame are you talking about; cheers JT
No - hooked upto solar so that you use teh suns energy when you are actually at home. Vector Trialed it but has pulled the plug waiting for battery costs to come down.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...ector-roll-out
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