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  1. #1331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeshiva View Post
    Hi all

    i have a question in relation to solar power.

    If solar power becomes more common (because panels are cheap and batteries become more efficient and cheap), which of the gentailers will be hurt the worst, and who will do ok?

    I understand that a bit of solar energy/battery uptake is not a bad thing for some gentailers because it means that the peak demand gets smoothed out and there is less need to bring on stream the more expensive fossil fuel burning stations.

    Thoughts?
    This is well worth a read: http://www.infratil.com/assets/impor...015-226958.pdf

  2. #1332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeshiva View Post
    Hi all
    I understand that a bit of solar energy/battery uptake is not a bad thing for some gentailers because it means that the peak demand gets smoothed out and there is less need to bring on stream the more expensive fossil fuel burning stations.
    Thoughts?
    Peak demand does not coincide with significant solar generation. That is the inherent problem with solar - a significant mis-match between supply times and demand times

  3. #1333
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    With batterys the load can be shifted to maximise value and security of supply Is not required. Value is lost by all in the industry.IFT Do not cover batteries

  4. #1334
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    Battery technology needs replacing more often than one may think, I have not done the numbers, but the capital outlay is likely large, and often (say every 4 or 5 years before the batteries simply don't hold sufficient charge). Therefore batteries will probably cost more than the extra revenue gained from 'storing' energy for selling at a higher demand time in the day, not to mention other issues such as overheating and storage etc.

    Obviously a company like Tesla could come along and try 'revolutionize' battery technology, but this is likely to be many years away before battery technology significantly improves.
    Last edited by trader_jackson; 13-01-2016 at 08:17 PM.

  5. #1335
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    Quote Originally Posted by trader_jackson View Post
    Obviously a company like Tesla could come along and try 'revolutionize' battery technology, but this is likely to be many years away before battery technology significantly improves.
    Tesla will
    Guarantee the battery for 10 years.

    But read the fine print - that will be on a deminishing storage level per year. Will be interesting to see what they are guaranteeing after 5 and 10 years.

  6. #1336
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    I think that the way the battery storage system could work is for the battery to perform a double function, such as powering a motor car plus backing up the house battery supply. That system would charge all batteries overnight plus during slack periods of the day. Also it would assume electric cars would normally be garaged at home during the evening.
    What is never discussed is the cost of maintenance. Petrol engines today require very little maintenance. Battery maintenance could be more expensive than petrol!

  7. #1337
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    Battery storage is only chosen if absolutely necessary due to huge up-front cost eg PV + battery installation is really only viable when there is no economic local electricity reticulation.

    In NZ with no PV solar subsidy, simple grid-tied is the only viable option. Still has a 5-10 year ROI. Most solar generation between 10am-4pm, shorter in winter. Peak load 6-9am & 5-8pm ish. Minimal to zero peak demand off-setting

    Current battery technology lacks energy density (it's called a power wall because that's how big it is) and cost still too high. Lithium based batteries aren't the answer because lithium is a very scarce element that is expensive to extract = high cost now and as demand increases, so will the price. Aluminium based batteries are sounding more viable, but still experimental. Potential good news for NZ generators because Tiwai Pt aluminium is very pure

  8. #1338
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouse View Post
    I think that the way the battery storage system could work is for the battery to perform a double function, such as powering a motor car plus backing up the house battery supply. That system would charge all batteries overnight plus during slack periods of the day. Also it would assume electric cars would normally be garaged at home during the evening......
    And that is part of the problem with EVs. Peak demand in winter is from 5:00 pm to 8:00 pm. Plug in an electric vehicle when you get home at 6:00 pm and it adds to that peak demand and lengthens the duration of the peak. An extra 10 KW of demand per EV for 8 hours certainly won't help with smoothing the peaks.

  9. #1339
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    Lithium not so scare and production prices will drop alot.Lithium is being produced @ re $2000 tonne at ORE(evaporation based) but haven't reached nameplate yet. LIT will be producing even cheaper Li from waste rock Micas but still to prove this up in any decent scale.

  10. #1340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jantar View Post
    And that is part of the problem with EVs. Peak demand in winter is from 5:00 pm to 8:00 pm. Plug in an electric vehicle when you get home at 6:00 pm and it adds to that peak demand and lengthens the duration of the peak. An extra 10 KW of demand per EV for 8 hours certainly won't help with smoothing the peaks.
    You will have the option to smart charge so only charge one night time tariffs start. Not an issue of battery life is 300km (as unlikely to have used that during the day) but current 80km range batteries could be an issue if you needed to pop out again at night.

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