MCY Mercury NZ ( MRP Mighty River Power)

[horus1]

I would feel that solar is cheaper than geothermal.

[Snoopy]

I would feel that solar is cheaper than geothermal.

I am talking about a Mercury wholesale portfolio perspective Horus. The real value to Mercury in having more geothermal 'base load' is that it frees up the Mercury Hydro dams that were predominantly base load stations to become 'peaker generators.' IOW when power prices are high it is easy to crank up a hydro station quickly in a way that isn't possible with geothermal, and thus reap 'peak profits'.

You may be right that from an installed cost perspective solar is now cheaper. But peak solar generation in NZ does not meet peak power consumption. So to get solar system to work on a wholesale portfolio basis, you must couple your solar installation with battery storage. While solar panels themselves can work for decades, the concomitant battery storage required must be amortized over a much shorter period and cash set aside to buy a replacement. So solar is not as cheap as it looks.

Personally I have long been concerned at the timing mismatch between peak generation and peak consumption in NZ. I was considering building a small vertical axis wind turbine at home to generate some power in the depths of winter when I needed it and couple that to a battery. But more recently I am thinking of not building any generation myself, but installing an energy storage battery only. Then I could join an outfit like Flick and buy wholesale power when it is cheap, without the expense of doing any generation at home. I see Contact Energy was the last gentailer to greatly reduce the price paid for distributed power.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/102...gacy-customers

This must be gutting for those consumers who invested in their own distributed generation at home, on the understanding they would be paid twice what the big power companies are now offering!

What do you think about leaving the machinations of generation to the big boys, and making your savings by just playing the wholesale market?

SNOOPY

[horus1]

I have been on Flick for some years . I believe that the benefits of solar and batteries come home when you go off grid and with reducing solar and battery costs this is happening,first in new houses , then it will be in remote locations and when fuel cells arrive in other places.The total electricity industry will have to take write downs as in bertram's article in the Dominion today. I agree with his sentiments.The problem for domestic customers is the price they are charged is excessive that is why Flick saves me 15 %. But you have to be able to take the risks and many cannot afford that. Why should I subsidise Tiwai and commercial players.
I have 6.5KW of solar and it is on the spot market thru Flick, .It pays for itself and I will install more.

[fish]

I have been on Flick for some years . I believe that the benefits of solar and batteries come home when you go off grid and with reducing solar and battery costs this is happening,first in new houses , then it will be in remote locations and when fuel cells arrive in other places.The total electricity industry will have to take write downs as in bertram's article in the Dominion today. I agree with his sentiments.The problem for domestic customers is the price they are charged is excessive that is why Flick saves me 15 %. But you have to be able to take the risks and many cannot afford that. Why should I subsidise Tiwai and commercial players.
I have 6.5KW of solar and it is on the spot market thru Flick, .It pays for itself and I will install more.

Maybe it might be a good idea to re-evaluate the situation for this winter.Power prices rather high at the moment(over $900 in NI)and with short wet days you may not be getting much solar

[horus1]

The lakes are over 100% full . No need for high prices except the greedy gen/retailers and with review coming there may be some common sense. Flick has saved me $900 . Wouldnt touch another retailer .

[RTM]

The lakes are over 100% full . No need for high prices except the greedy gen/retailers and with review coming there may be some common sense. Flick has saved me $900 . Wouldnt touch another retailer .

Took a look at the Trust Power presentation yesterday.....
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-websit...608/277533.pdf

"Electricity segment remains highly competitive with consolidation and failures likely "

I wonder who they are thinking about in terms of failures ?

Also.....
"Following the sale of GSP and the takeover of KCE, Trustpower will be well positioned to participate in further industry consolidation"

Clearly they are seeing more changes in the sector.
Disc: Interested as holding shares in all the Gentailers. Probably overweight overall.

[Jantar]

The lakes are over 100% full . No need for high prices except the greedy gen/retailers and with review coming there may be some common sense. Flick has saved me $900 . Wouldnt touch another retailer .

This morning all available hydro was flat out except for a small margin to cover reserve. Whirinaki was even called on, so who pays for Whirinaki if prices are not high?

This afternoon, demand has dropped, thermal plant has been backed off, and look: Prices are low.

[horus1]

So i'm saving again. Why does everyone get the top price and not there bid price .? That would seem to make more sense.

[fish]

So i'm saving again. Why does everyone get the top price and not there bid price .? That would seem to make more sense.

Its the rules of this market.
Prices are getting very high at periods of peak demand and as Jantar says Whirinaki is being run to meet this demand-therefore you are paying cost plus to meet the price of running diesel generation.
The periods of peak demand do not correspond with solar generation so I have to wonder if you are going to have a cold winter.

[horus1]

I am with flick so I will be 15% cheaper than the gen/retailers. I use it when it is cheap at night usually after 9pm. That is not an answer that that is the rules of the market. It does not apply in a number of jurisdictions overseas.