MCY Mercury NZ ( MRP Mighty River Power)

[horus1]

It doesn't work that wayI

[mouse]

No 350kV DC and 220kV AC are not interchangable, I agree. But you can use a transformer to adjust the voltage and an AC/DC convertor at each end of the DC line to adjust the form of electricity. That would allow a 220kV AC line from Benmore to feed into a 350kV DC cable, and allow 220kV AC to be pulled out of the other end at Haywards would it not?

SNOOPY

I think that is true Snoopy. Plus, I think that the cook strait crossing is AC, having been converted from the DC link. It may change back to DC on the other side, North Island, but I am not sure. I think the problem is Manapouri to Twizel. Plus then moving the extra power North, using existing cables that could be pretty full anyway.

[Snow Leopard]

Manapouri is operated by Meridian Energy, there are several threads for them.

Transpower operates the transmission grid in NZ, they have bonds listed on the NZ Debt Market so could start a thread in that forum.

And for those of you guessing stuff - just look it up will you!

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Disc: own MRP on the NZX and SPN on the ASX.

[Snoopy]

Plus, I think that the cook strait crossing is AC, having been converted from the DC link. It may change back to DC on the other side, North Island, but I am not sure.

Actually, no. From the 2013 pdf.

https://www.transpower.co.nz/sites/d...20-%20HVDC.pdf

"The HVDC connection between the North Island and the South Island relies on three HVDC submarine power cables across Cook Strait. The submarine cables were installed in 1991, together with new cable terminal stations where the cables connect to the overhead HVDC transmission line."

SNOOPY

[Snoopy]

Manapouri is operated by Meridian Energy, there are several threads for them.

Transpower operates the transmission grid in NZ, they have bonds listed on the NZ Debt Market so could start a thread in that forum.

What I am interested in, a topic which is directly relevant to this thread, is what happens to MRPs business when there is a drought in the Taupo catchment? MRP could buy power from the Genesis Energy owned two older Rankine units in Huntly. Or MRP could buy power from South Island. That means from Genesis (Tekapo) and/or Contact (Roxburgh, Clyde) and/or Meridian hydro stations (including Manapouri). If Tiwai goes, there is suddenly mass overcapacity in the South Island.

Can the existing north south cable transmit this power up north to alleviate MRPs problems? The strict answer is yes, the HVDC cable technically has the capacity to handle the output of Manapouri.

From p2 of

https://www.transpower.co.nz/sites/d...20-%20HVDC.pdf

"We will complete Stage 2 of the Pole 3 project as part of the originally approved Pole 3 Major Capex Proposal (MCP). The remaining work involves improving voltage stability through the addition of filter banks and a static synchronous compensator (STATCOM). This will increase the HVDC capacity to 1,200 MW. Stage 2 is due to be commissioned by 2014."

The practical answer is no, because all of those other South Island hydro generators will also be producing excess power with well filled southern lakes and the total power available to be exported north will overwhelm even the upgraded HVDC cable.

Manapouri is furthest from the Benmore node so is the least likely source of power to go north, all southern lake levels being equal.

SNOOPY

[Snow Leopard]

The basic market mechanism whereby generators bid to supply for the expected demand is, I thought, fairly straight forward. But a quick search on this wonderful internet thing should give you a few brief descriptions of how it works.

In addition the participants buy and sell CfDs to limit, to a degree, the risk of extreme (both high and low) prices.

And if you really want to get into it there are the Virtual Asset Swaps as well.

MRP has been operating in 'drought' mode for some time now.

All gentailers are basically continuously making decisions whether to supply more or less power into the market than they require to deliver to customers based on making the best use of their resources and profits.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Harvey Specter]

All gentailers are basically continuously making decisions whether to supply more or less power into the market than they require to deliver to customers based on making the best use of their resources and profits.

My understading is that except for baseload (ie runs 24/7) they are constantly deciding, based on the spot price, whether to supple extra power (ie. run more wter through the turbine) or to save that stored capacity for when they need it to avoid having to pay a higher spot rate.

The stored capacity, whether it be water, gas or coal is never wasted.

[Snoopy]

The participants buy and sell CfDs to limit, to a degree, the risk of extreme (both high and low) prices.

And if you really want to get into it there are the Virtual Asset Swaps as well.

There is a section in the GNE prospectus on CFDs and Asset swaps in the elctricity market, that I am in the process of digesting. Be warned though, it gave me a headache the first time I read it. Those assets swaps were organised by the government to ensure a more competitive electricity market, before the recent floats. Yes they do have an effect. But MRP still has most of their generation in the upper North Island. The fact that they have a 'virtual share' of some of Meridian's South Island power doesn't alter the big picture. I am not convinced that factoring in a virtual power station in the South Island that makes up say 10% of MRPs generation is needed to understand the big picture for MRP. I may be proved wrong about that. But this puppy prefers to keep the analysis of power company shares as simple as possible to achieve my desired result.

MRP has been operating in 'drought' mode for some time now.

Good point. And haven't they done well!

All gentailers are basically continuously making decisions whether to supply more or less power into the market than they require to deliver to customers based on making the best use of their resources and profits.

As a power company investor, I don't believe that I need access to the day to day data feeds coming into the MRP data centre to maintain a suitable 'investment watch' on the company.

SNOOPY

discl: hold MRP

[percy]

The basic market mechanism whereby generators bid to supply for the expected demand is, I thought, fairly straight forward. But a quick search on this wonderful internet thing should give you a few brief descriptions of how it works.

In addition the participants buy and sell CfDs to limit, to a degree, the risk of extreme (both high and low) prices.

And if you really want to get into it there are the Virtual Asset Swaps as well.

MRP has been operating in 'drought' mode for some time now.

All gentailers are basically continuously making decisions whether to supply more or less power into the market than they require to deliver to customers based on making the best use of their resources and profits.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

So I must ask the question;Which power company has the best traders? Does that energy company make more out of trading, than generating the power?
A few years ago I noticed Trust Power sold a great deal more power than they generated.

[Snoopy]

So I must ask the question;Which power company has the best traders? Does that energy company make more out of trading, than generating the power?
A few years ago I noticed Trust Power sold a great deal more power than they generated.

I suspect the answer is, no one company gets the best of any other company over the longer term, all things being equal. But because all of our electricity companies have their own generating profiles most can influence the market for power by turning peaking power stations on and off, and in the case of MRP switching between Geothermal and Hydro to take best advantage of the water storage conditions. Lastly, some power generating companies have more power station capacity to turn on and off than others.

So despite what I said in line one of this post, all things may not be equal!

SNOOPY