GNE - Genesis Energy

[horus1]

Batteries and solar are economic in NZ at present, and whats more they change the industry into a consumer lead position. This combination is a destructive technology for the electricity industry in NZ as it is overseas. The problem is the very high prices being charged by Generator/ retailers to domestic customers in NZ.

[BlackPeter]

Batteries and solar are economic in NZ at present, and whats more they change the industry into a consumer lead position. This combination is a destructive technology for the electricity industry in NZ as it is overseas. The problem is the very high prices being charged by Generator/ retailers to domestic customers in NZ.

horus - a bit of down ramping - aren't we? If anybody in NZ is ripping customers off, than it is the Transpower monopoly ... and I think you mentioned at some stage that you had responsibility for running that.

However - given your previous occupation would I be surprised if you wouldn't know how expensive unsubsidised solar and battery systems required to run a house still are. Haven't yet seen one which would come close to the cost you pay for power from the net (unless you have to pay tens of thousands of dollars extra for the net connection, which might happen in the countryside). Add the cost for solar cells plus batteries plus converter plus controller up - and you could be glad if you get your kWH over the life time of the system for less than $1,00 - and it leaves you after 5 to 8 years as well with a financial as well as ecological nightmare (replacing the bank of batteries).

But if you know it better - why don't you just publish a link to an autarc solar system capable to produce over its lifetime sufficient electricity to power a house (even during the wintertime and through a handful of rainy days) and producing a kWh for less than 20 cents ... I am in, if you guarantee the price. Yes - right, 20 cents. this is what we currently pay to Genesis ... average of day and night power).

Still better - if you really believe solar energy is that cheap - why don't you just build such a system for your house and invite all of us to look at it?

[workingdad]

Batteries and solar are economic in NZ at present, and whats more they change the industry into a consumer lead position. This combination is a destructive technology for the electricity industry in NZ as it is overseas. The problem is the very high prices being charged by Generator/ retailers to domestic customers in NZ.

I dont think they are economic enough for the majority of new zealanders, of whom so many are struggling to even buy their own home.

I would be interested to learn more about the overseas markets you refer to that solar and battery are impacting on so much, for example over how many years ect. My anecdotal take on kiwis is perhaps a little less keen to adopt such technological changes, solar has been around a while now and from what I understand the numbers arent really that inspiring. In saying that however, I am not much of an expert and work within the petrochemical industry that doesnt exactly have a lot to do with solar.

[GTM 3442]

One of the keys to adoption of new technology is simplicity. There are a lot of solar water heaters in New Zealand, because installation is relatively simple.

Heat pumps are another case in point.

Adoption of anything more complicated than these two examples will be delayed until the new technology is similarly simple to install.

So in the short term, electric vehicles will represent a major new market for the existing power companies. Hopefully they figure out how to introduce a new "off-peak" or "overnight" tariff as they did for storage heaters.

Oh - and expect your electric car not to start occasionally because the equivalent of "ripple control" for water heating has kicked in during your overnight charging window.

[workingdad]

I just had an interesting conversation with a colleague that has off grid solar. He said on a good day he can get 26kwh out of the solar, the battery system can only store so much then he has to turn it off. On a bad day nothing is generated so for prolonged periods he has a generater back up. Out lay cost 4 years ago was substantial and it will never become cost effective but due to location the expense of the national grid was not an option.

Our household uses on average 700kwh per month and thats with gas hot water. Bearing in mind the 26kwh on a good day it wouldnt keep up with my family of 5.

Obviously prices have come down since then but it was interesting to learn from an unbiased perspective on the whole solar battery thing as an option, what I can say - its not something I would be considering anytime soon.

[horus1]

We will just have to wait and see. I have sold out of all gen/retailing shares. too much risk and div exposure

[IAK]

With the inevitable uptake of electric cars I'd say and oil companies (and petrol stations) are under more threat than electricity companies. It's probably one of the reasons BP and now Caltex have bailed out of NZ.

[macduffy]

With the inevitable uptake of electric cars I'd say and oil companies (and petrol stations) are under more threat than electricity companies. It's probably one of the reasons BP and now Caltex have bailed out of NZ.

BP still active here when I last looked!

Shell and Caltex have sold their downstream businesses here, and in Shell's case at least, elsewhere, but have certainly not slowed down on the exploration/production front. More a case of concentration of their business, I would think, than a lack of confidence in finding a market for their product.

[Joshuatree]

Yeah agree macd; Chevron on a $10billion plus fund gathering mission to shore up balance sheet and pay divs.
Although i think NZ is great place for electric cars, take-up has been incredibly slow/small despite car prices dropping somewhat. Im sure Z has factored that into its research and worked out electric car take up is no threat for sometime yet; let alone trucks, planes and ships and trains.

[IAK]

Sorry Shell. I suppose time will tell .....http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-auto-industry