Pie funds

[Thor]

To Thor and 777, aren't these all reasons why the new fund might be a good option (with the ability to go short)?

Maybe, but as 1leon said, their entire history has been small cap long investors. So with no history (and limited experience?) the new strategy may not work out as planned - only time will tell.

[Fisherking]

I have some term deposits coming up that I was going to put into p2p lending, however that is proving time consuming in itself. I have looked at Pie a lot in the past but now could be the time to pull the trigger. Unsure about this latest fund but might see if they have others open.

P2P is good diversification but the return is not that great. I'm at ~15% but this is gross of tax. I'm on a similar return TY from money in Pie Funds but the return is tax paid so ~50% higher.
Mixed results from PF this year, last year was stronger, however there are a few months to go.

[Snow Leopard]

They would only need to sell if clients wanted their money back. Bailing after the turn in the market is stupidity.

Well, bailing before the market turns is also 'stupidity', if not more so.

I believe Peter Lynch actually said that many people who invested in the funds he managed lost money despite his out-performance of the market precisely because they gave him their money when the market was hot and took it back when it was down.

[Lewylewylewy]

Well, bailing before the market turns is also 'stupidity', if not more so.

I believe Peter Lynch actually said that many people who invested in the funds he managed lost money despite his out-performance of the market precisely because they gave him their money when the market was hot and took it back when it was down.

I've made this mistake, when starting out. New I think if I'm not riding it out, I'll profit take when I think my stock is over valued. Still learning here.

[Sideshow Bob]

While their funds have done quite well in the past, recent (last 3 years) performance for most of their funds is poor. Their clients and funds under management (FUM) have grown significantly over the last few years, on the back of good prior performance. Every year they seem to open a new fund with a slight tilt, but its just a disguise to increased their FUM while still keeping the fund sizes small enough to retain their "boutique" look. They even stated during a recent roadshow their goal is 1 billion FUM.

I am a PIE client, however I am very aware of the very high risks of their investments. Highly concentrated investments in 10-15 stocks, most of which are highly illiquid. During the next bear market their funds will get crushed, unable to sell their huge holdings in companies with no liquidity. You only need to look at their TIL investment as one example.

Disc: PIE Funds client, but considering selling soon.

I sold out recently, for similar reasons. Needed the funds elsewhere but first choice of what to go.

Was in the global fund since inception, and while the return was OK, was nothing to match the marketing spin. Went to one of their presentations and was distinctly unimpressed with their presentations and didn't instill me with confidence. Of course they can't cover the globe, but to invest in a fund to invest in other funds left me a little uninspired.

[Dust]

I sold out recently, for similar reasons. Needed the funds elsewhere but first choice of what to go.

Was in the global fund since inception, and while the return was OK, was nothing to match the marketing spin. Went to one of their presentations and was distinctly unimpressed with their presentations and didn't instill me with confidence. Of course they can't cover the globe, but to invest in a fund to invest in other funds left me a little uninspired.

What percentage of their global fund are invested into external fund managers roughly? For PIE fund's small AUM I would understand the use of external funds to gain the global exposure.

[Schrodinger]

Why pick Pie over Superlife? Return for a mix of ETF's look similar between both. 2 day withdrawl liquidity v 1 month? I have assessed this recently.

Not convinced they can outperform the market in a meaningful way over 10 years to justify risk v reward.

As mentioned above by SBob the liquidity risk of their smaller Mcap holdings will be exposed in a downturn when investors pull funds from stocks +Pie due to their requirement to meet commitments. Hanging on a knife edge for 20 working day days (i.e. 1 month) if PIE became insolvent (and you find out later while waiting) might justify a 5%+ out performance premium over Superlife ETF's.

Might be worth it if they added a portfolio insurance product that guarantees withdrawl payouts (first rank priority over IRD etc).

[bull....]

Why pick Pie over Superlife? Return for a mix of ETF's look similar between both. 2 day withdrawl liquidity v 1 month? I have assessed this recently.

Not convinced they can outperform the market in a meaningful way over 10 years to justify risk v reward.

As mentioned above by SBob the liquidity risk of their smaller Mcap holdings will be exposed in a downturn when investors pull funds from stocks +Pie due to their requirement to meet commitments. Hanging on a knife edge for 20 working day days (i.e. 1 month) if PIE became insolvent (and you find out later while waiting) might justify a 5%+ out performance premium over Superlife ETF's.

Might be worth it if they added a portfolio insurance product that guarantees withdrawl payouts (first rank priority over IRD etc).

superlife returns look much better in the last yr as well , better than most fund managers in nz at a quick glance

https://superlife.co.nz/investments/...urns-after-tax

[PLYNCH]

Not so good the Geminio fund.

[Entrep]

Thanks for the Superlife links I will check them out