Pie funds

[stoploss]

I think you need to compare apples with apples - the table you refer to shows all types of funds, from global equity to emerging markets to fixed interest. Also 6 months is too short a period to make any meaningful conclusions, in my view. Look at the 12 month numbers to get a better picture.

Bear in mind that in the last 2.5 years Pie's total FUM has gone from $30m to $190m. It's almost inevitable that performance numbers will be harder to generate going forward than when the funds were small, if for no other reason than Pie isn't 'under the radar' any more. Just look at how many substantial shareholder filings Pie does these days. And it will only get harder because despite saying the funds are closed, they keep taking in more money. Check out the last annual accounts on the Companies Office website. The Dividend Fund took in $4m more than was withdrawn in the year to 31 March 2014, and the Emerging Fund also took in more than was withdrawn.

Finally, the performance data on Morningstar is to the 30th September, so it doesn't include the impact of Titan on Pie's numbers.

I think the "still taking in money " Is investors in the fund who choose to reinvest the dividend in more units as opposed to taking the cash .....?

[D. Fender]

I think the "still taking in money " Is investors in the fund who choose to reinvest the dividend in more units as opposed to taking the cash .....?

Maybe that accounts for it.

[peat]

What's " all very recent " the Aust Growth was established Dec 2007, 100k now 350 K ....
from memory 2008 wasn't a bull market .........

yeh I said with the exception of one fund ...which is obviously the fund that existed during 2008
very recent effectively means 'one market cycle'
I do accept the results look good but my point is they haven't really been tested through downturns or even long stagnant phases.

[D. Fender]

I just checked the 2014 reports and accounts. You can find these on the Companies Office website, look under 'Search Other Registers' the look for Unit Trusts, and search on Pie Australasian Dividend Fund.

[Harvey Specter]

Really, they are taking 10% in performance fees? And this is on top of the annual fees which I assume are around 1-2%?
And the new fund is $50k a year so 20% of your capital goes to Pie each year?

This is hedge fund pricing - not a mutual fund. And if they consider themselves a hedge fund, then I assume Pie comes with hedge fund type risks.

Hedge fund pricing is 2 and 20, though 1.5 and 15 is getting close. I assume the performance fee only cuts in above the index return so not as bad as a hedge fund.

Not sure where your 20% of capital comment comes from?

Edit: the global is 1 and 10 but I assume there are also additional fees by the funds they invest in.

[D. Fender]

Really, they are taking 10% in performance fees? And this is on top of the annual fees which I assume are around 1-2%?
And the new fund is $50k a year so 20% of your capital goes to Pie each year?

This is hedge fund pricing - not a mutual fund. And if they consider themselves a hedge fund, then I assume Pie comes with hedge fund type risks.

Hi KW,

The fee structures are:

Australasian Growth, Dividend and Emerging Companies Funds: 1.5% p.a plus 15% performance fee on all gains (subject to high water mark).

Global Small Companies Fund: 1% p.a. (plus underlying managers fees as this is a fund of funds, including full fees on investments into Pie's own funds) plus 10% performance fee on all gains (subject to high water mark).

Pie Chairmans Fund: $50K per annum (this is on the whole fund, not per investor), plus Pie's normal fund fees. So if the Chairman's Fund raises $5m, the fee is 1% p.a., plus 1%-1.5% p.a. and 10% -15% performance fees on the underlying funds (plus underlying manager fees on the Global Fund, including fees on investments into Pie's own funds).

Hope that's clear!

[D. Fender]

I assume the performance fee only cuts in above the index return so not as bad as a hedge fund.

Hi Harvey, the performance fee is on ALL gains, there is no benchmark/hurdle.

[Harvey Specter]

Hi Harvey, the performance fee is on ALL gains, there is no benchmark/hurdle.

Surprising. I think Fisher funds and Milford have a hurdle, though I think Fishers use the bond rate.

[D. Fender]

All I see is fees, fees, fees and more fees LOL

Morningstar performance numbers should be out soon.

[stoploss]

All I see is fees, fees, fees and more fees LOL

That Wall St adage really is true - if you want to be rich invest other people's money! Its far easier to pick up millions $ per year in fees than actually build a portfolio of stocks. What's the bet an IPO is in the wings, so the founders can rake even more money in?

KW , I have been to a couple of investor meetings with PIE. In particular Mike the CEO . I personally think you might be being a little unfair on him / PIE . I understand he has no direct shareholdings ....all money in the market is in his funds. All staff are invested in the funds . Closing the funds at 50 Mio , does not look like someone who is just after fees. I appreciate other posters have pointed out that he has taken on some more money , plus reinvestments. However the flood gates are not open .Seems like the great knocking machine is having a bit of a go here. One f up ( and we all have them ) and the wolves are at the door.
He set this company up , and I think it is on their website as he was not happy with the way other fund managers operated .....
DISC : I hold a number of the funds , as part of my portfolio .( very happy with the performance)