Bear.asx

[ynot]

Is BBOZ safe to buy.. they seem to own nothing and have no CEO or anything? Their disclaimer is really lose. Like ...we own nothing , we do nothing and we guarantee nothing ...!
Looking to buy some though before its too late and the world wakes up to what a mess we are in .

It's behaviour has similarities to a roulette wheel. One things for sure, when the shtf finally bboz is headed upwards fast.

[BlackPeter]

Is BBOZ safe to buy.. they seem to own nothing and have no CEO or anything? Their disclaimer is really lose. Like ...we own nothing , we do nothing and we guarantee nothing ...!
Looking to buy some though before its too late and the world wakes up to what a mess we are in .

Hmm ... your statement does not compute. Do you understand that BBOZ is not a company (which would have a CEO), but a hedge fund run by Betashares (https://www.betashares.com.au/)?

Have a look through their information sheets:
https://www.betashares.com.au/fund/a...ong-bear-fund/

They do as well publish as well their NVA daily (as most other ETF's do as well): https://www.betashares.com.au/fund/a...fund/#keyfacts.

If you wnat to know what their holdings consist of - this is the place to download the list: https://www.betashares.com.au/fund/a...und/#resources

Much better information than many of the hyped up growth companies with nothing to show but a often flimsy story.

As well - quite predictable behaviour - market goes up BBOZ goes down and vice versa. Obviously - any investment into this fund is only sensible if you think the market goes down ... or just using them as a hedge (as I do).

[Yoda]

Thanks .. all very helpful. Yea, i understand they arnt a company as such, cheers. Thankyou for your time and knowledge.

[ynot]

My point about bboz volitility was its leveraged so if for example market moves up 2%, bboz moves up 4% and vice versa on the down side.

[BlackPeter]

My point about bboz volitility was its leveraged so if for example market moves up 2%, bboz moves up 4% and vice versa on the down side.

Just not sure whether "volatility" is an appropriate description and "roulette wheel" is an appropriate comparison in this context.

Sure - it is designed to move twice as fast as the index, however the movements are highly predictable (which would not be the case for a roulette wheel), but I suppose it depends how to use this instrument.

Obviously - if you use them to speculate (and BBOZ is the only instrument you are holding), than yes, it will jump around a lot. However - if you put some of your funds (say 10 to 20 %) into BBOZ to hedge you against the jumping around of the index, than they are an amazing tool to protect you against market volatility ... and while I know that (e.g.) BBOZ does protect my portfolio against volatility, a roulette wheel clearly would not.

That's the difference between speculating, hedging and gambling ....

[ynot]

True. Not exactly Roulette but one needs to be aware of the leverage. Can move with severity.

[petty]

Im struggling to get my head around the impacts of the rebalancing. I understand that during times of high volatility this re-balancing is happening more frequently.

Id like to take a position in BBUS and BBOZ. Im more the buy and hold type rather than trading daily/weekly. Does the re-balancing that these products undergo make these a traders product or is a buy and wait for next crash approach appropriate with these products?

I have exposure to US and Aus and want to hedge but dont know enough to be trading these products on a daily weekly basis.

Feedback welcome

[BlackPeter]

Im struggling to get my head around the impacts of the rebalancing. I understand that during times of high volatility this re-balancing is happening more frequently.

Id like to take a position in BBUS and BBOZ. Im more the buy and hold type rather than trading daily/weekly. Does the re-balancing that these products undergo make these a traders product or is a buy and wait for next crash approach appropriate with these products?

I have exposure to US and Aus and want to hedge but dont know enough to be trading these products on a daily weekly basis.

Feedback welcome

None of these instruments is suitable for "buy and hold forever" - unless you assume that humanity and the stock markets have from here a one way ticket to hell (and in that case it probably doesn't matter anyway what you hold).

I do hold some of them as a limited part of my portfolio (~15 ... 25%) in times of higher volatility (and yes, I think it is fair to say we are in one of these times). I don't attempt to predict the market, just smooth some volatility out of my portfolio. Obviously - it makes more sense to buy them, if I think the down risk is higher than the chance for further gains (and to sell them in the opposite situation).

[sampson]

Have been looking at these for awhile - wish I knew about them earlier in the year but went with asx GOLD as a minor (perhaps naive) experimental hedge. But quick question BP - what are the tax implications of these stocks given no prospect of dividend etc. Is tax obligatory or can it be avoided by citing that it is a capital preservation type hedge or something?

[BlackPeter]

Have been looking at these for awhile - wish I knew about them earlier in the year but went with asx GOLD as a minor (perhaps naive) experimental hedge. But quick question BP - what are the tax implications of these stocks given no prospect of dividend etc. Is tax obligatory or can it be avoided by citing that it is a capital preservation type hedge or something?

Not a tax specialist ... i.e. take this with a grain of salt.

As long as you use them as a hedge (i.e. basically to reduce capital losses you otherwise would have suffered across your
portfolio) I would not anticipate tax implications. Obviously - if you are a trader, you would just add any gains you make (or losses you suffer) with buying / selling them to the gains / losses you made with other stocks and report on the total.

I suspect if you use them not as a hedge but buy them to speculate on a falling index and make a profit from trading them, than it might be difficult to convince IRD that your intention was not to make a capital gain ...