Promisia Integrative Limited (PIL)

[jimbo]

This was totally within the realms of possibility for a poorly characterised "complementary medicine" product and should give real cause for concern if they claim that risk is linked to dosage.

Reason: they don't know what is in their product. It's not a drug comprised of one characterised compound, but a crude extract of literally thousands of different compounds from a plant that makes a bewildering array of specialised metabolites. Why does this matter? Changes in growing conditions due to environmental factors or farmer actions may considerably alter the composition of chemicals in each batch of product, and Promisia has no meaningful way of monitoring this. In reality, the dosage of active ingredients probably changes with every batch, and the plant is not even grown locally (mostly in India). Just one of *many* problems I have with this outfit. Please don't bring up the published studies - a critical eye can see that they are barely passable and the authors had to work to get the statistics in line.

[peat]

the plant is not even grown locally (mostly in India). Just one of *many* problems I have with this outfit

Tanzania is where they mention their crop is growing in the 2017 interim chairmans address

[Yoda]

This was totally within the realms of possibility for a poorly characterised "complementary medicine" product and should give real cause for concern if they claim that risk is linked to dosage.

Reason: they don't know what is in their product. It's not a drug comprised of one characterised compound, but a crude extract of literally thousands of different compounds from a plant that makes a bewildering array of specialised metabolites. Why does this matter? Changes in growing conditions due to environmental factors or farmer actions may considerably alter the composition of chemicals in each batch of product, and Promisia has no meaningful way of monitoring this. In reality, the dosage of active ingredients probably changes with every batch, and the plant is not even grown locally (mostly in India). Just one of *many* problems I have with this outfit. Please don't bring up the published studies - a critical eye can see that they are barely passable and the authors had to work to get the statistics in line.

I would say all drugs give cause for concern if overdosed.....

and where did you get the grown in India from please. Thats interesting .

[jimbo]

I would say all drugs give cause for concern if overdosed.....

and where did you get the grown in India from please. Thats interesting .

Totally agree that all drugs give cause for concern if overdosed - that's partly how a dose is defined the difference between this product and a therapeutic drug is that a drug manufacturer is required to know exactly what is in their product and how much of it there is, so that a dose can be defined. Did you follow my point about why this is a problem for Arthrem?

I'm happy to take your word that the company gets their particular plants from a supplier in Tanzania and I don't dispute it. My point was that they likely have very little insight or power when it comes to growing conditions and quality control, as this crop is almost exclusively grown in developing nations far from NZ. Regarding India in particular: a massive expansion of Artemisia annua cultivation in India was partly responsible for crashing the price of artemisinin a couple of years ago (artemisinin = the approved antimalarial *pharmaceutical drug* that is *purified* from Artemisia annua extracts)

[Yoda]

Cheers for that clarification . Im still happy to have made $4 k today. And see how it goes tomorrow . This will not be a long term investment .....

[Balance]

Totally agree that all drugs give cause for concern if overdosed - that's partly how a dose is defined the difference between this product and a therapeutic drug is that a drug manufacturer is required to know exactly what is in their product and how much of it there is, so that a dose can be defined. Did you follow my point about why this is a problem for Arthrem?

I'm happy to take your word that the company gets their particular plants from a supplier in Tanzania and I don't dispute it. My point was that they likely have very little insight or power when it comes to growing conditions and quality control, as this crop is almost exclusively grown in developing nations far from NZ. Regarding India in particular: a massive expansion of Artemisia annua cultivation in India was partly responsible for crashing the price of artemisinin a couple of years ago (artemisinin = the approved antimalarial *pharmaceutical drug* that is *purified* from Artemisia annua extracts)

https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/n...-harmful-liver

Biggest problem for PIL now is the potential liability it has overseas - could run into many millions of dollars if they get sued overseas.

They do not take prisoners overseas - unlike NZ.

[peat]

I asked at a pharmacy on main st here in the 'nui and they said the sale of Arthrem is nearly back to what it was before the medsafe scare.

[s4draynz]

Paracetamol can also cause Liver Toxicity....

[haewai]

Late in the day announcement yesterday: https://www.nzx.com/announcements/314979

[hardt]

PIL have $300k left in the tank... placement will be just around the corner no doubt.

Only thing nice to see in that report was the gross margin improving to 72.5%.