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  1. #221
    FEAR n GREED JBmurc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crypto Crude View Post
    LOL ...
    Cryptocurrency is a revolution that you continue to deny and deny...
    Teslas bitcoin purchases are already well in profit and aid the company even though the value of those assets make up a tiny part of the company... it is yet more diversification and more ways to net customers...
    To not hold at least some cryptocurrency is just total negligence... Tesla plan to use Bitcoin as a means of payment for vehicles which is totally amazing because this will be the most practical way for me to purchase a vehicle which will eventually be my plan ...
    cc
    Good for you see a few small Tesla around Queenstown ...ugly as hell model S look aright but I see Realistically the car has a range of around 365km if fully charged driving in NZ conditions if you take it easy.

    .... they certainly have first mover advantage and Cult following yes Buying BTC was a smart move to secure followers of the other Cult two bubbles floating away together till they hit the ceiling fan of reality ...

    Good read--https://www.smh.com.au/money/investing/tesla-facing-stiff-headwinds-will-the-share-price-bubble-burst-20210208-p570lg.html
    Last edited by JBmurc; 11-02-2021 at 05:40 PM.
    "With a good perspective on history, we can have a better understanding of the past and present, and thus a clear vision of the future." — Carlos Slim Helu

  2. #222
    FEAR n GREED JBmurc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crypto Crude View Post
    JBMurc,
    Crypto should excite you more than anything you've ever seen before times 10... I have over 50 different cryptos and most of them have shown unreal returns... are you not watching coinmarketcap...
    You must have numbed yourself off to crypto somehow...
    Now that we can profit in both bear and bull markets we can easily return 150 times investment by 2025...

    What a huge disappointment it is for you to be numbed off by the greatest asset class the world has ever seen...

    We have Bill's to pay we are not social workers or councillors...
    So if it returns the big big money then I want to know about it !!!!.....

    Whatever negative ideas you think of crypto throw them out the window immediately... and buy crypto as soon as possible... this bullmarket lasts this year and it's about as sick as a stockmarket bullmarket of an entire lifetime....


    cc
    One could make money selling or making drugs "Breaking Bad" etc but thats not the person I am .

    .. I'm sure BTC has been created by the same guys pushing a cashless society and not free money for the people anti the system BS we see pumped --- if it truely was it would have been crushed long ago... but instead every day on CNBC we have pumpers telling us to BUYBUY BUY

    . Just ask the guys that were stopped being able to buy US shares--GME along with other companies recently ... or during the GFC when the CFTC stop being able to short the Banks

    ... or the HUNTs when the same CFTC stopped anyone being able to go long on Silver ,...

    But here we go Bitcoin has not only freedom to trade anywhere in many countries but is promoted by "Wall Street"+ MSM as Digital "GOLD" unlike its so called founders white paper




    .. freedom of the people is GONE ..negative rates will come every transactions can be
    "With a good perspective on history, we can have a better understanding of the past and present, and thus a clear vision of the future." — Carlos Slim Helu

  3. #223
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    I wouldn't take any financial advice, in crypto or otherwise, from anyone who deosnt know how to read a company financial statement (because if someone says Tesla "just dont make money" - then that person obviously have never bothered too or doesnt know how to read an income statement.)

    =====

    Tesla has amongst the highest gross margins on their vehicles of any car manufacturer building at scale, that is a fact easily confirmed by simply comparing income statements - it's not an opinion, it is simply the reality that Tesla cars are sold with a very high profit margin. (And yes that is without "regulatory credits" which are 100% gross margin - a nice cherry on top.)

    Meanwhile, as Tesla has been growing gross margins, the company operating expenses (SG&A and R&D costs) have remained relatively flat (or actually reduced) even with rapidly growing shipment volume. This is because much of the operating expenses are fixed costs unrelated to the number of cars shipped, therefore as shipments increase the gross margin earned from the additional shipments starts flowing increasingly straight to the operating profit bottom line. This is a classic example of operating leverage leading to dramatically higher profit growth. In other words, once the gross margin from shipments was large enough to cover the fixed operating expenses, the additional growth in shipments is all flowing to profits.

    This is the primary reason why the company is valued so highly at present. If Tesla grows its car shipments as expected throughout this decade (from 500k cars last year to 5-10 million cars annually by decade end), AND is able to maintain impressive gross margins, then all that additional gross margin generated above the 500k annual shipment level will flow mostly through to gigantic profit growth. Any additional profits from Tesla's growing non-car business segments (energy & services, and any new markets entered like FSD fleet potentially) will accelerate the profits.

    In short, people aren't assigning a $750 Billion valuation based on Tesla's current earnings, but instead are basing it on what they think the company will be earning 5-10 years out. If one thinks the company will be able to generate $50 Billion in net income in 2030, then the current valuation looks cheap. However if someone disagrees and thinks the company will only be earning $10 Billion at that date, then of course the company looks insanely overvalued. I expect the stock price to have big moves up and down over the next few years as the likelihood of either the bullish or bearish outcome increases or decreases as events play out.
    Last edited by LaserEyeKiwi; 22-02-2021 at 12:05 PM.

  4. #224
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    I love this. My Tesla short one of the best ever. Here comes $200.

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaserEyeKiwi View Post
    I wouldn't take any financial advice, in crypto or otherwise, from anyone who deosnt know how to read a company financial statement (because if someone says Tesla "just dont make money" - then that person obviously have never bothered too or doesnt know how to read an income statement.)

    =====

    Tesla has amongst the highest gross margins on their vehicles of any car manufacturer building at scale, that is a fact easily confirmed by simply comparing income statements - it's not an opinion, it is simply the reality that Tesla cars are sold with a very high profit margin. (And yes that is without "regulatory credits" which are 100% gross margin - a nice cherry on top.)

    Meanwhile, as Tesla has been growing gross margins, the company operating expenses (SG&A and R&D costs) have remained relatively flat (or actually reduced) even with rapidly growing shipment volume. This is because much of the operating expenses are fixed costs unrelated to the number of cars shipped, therefore as shipments increase the gross margin earned from the additional shipments starts flowing increasingly straight to the operating profit bottom line. This is a classic example of operating leverage leading to dramatically higher profit growth. In other words, once the gross margin from shipments was large enough to cover the fixed operating expenses, the additional growth in shipments is all flowing to profits.

    This is the primary reason why the company is valued so highly at present. If Tesla grows its car shipments as expected throughout this decade (from 500k cars last year to 5-10 million cars annually by decade end), AND is able to maintain impressive gross margins, then all that additional gross margin generated above the 500k annual shipment level will flow mostly through to gigantic profit growth. Any additional profits from Tesla's growing non-car business segments (energy & services, and any new markets entered like FSD fleet potentially) will accelerate the profits.

    In short, people aren't assigning a $750 Billion valuation based on Tesla's current earnings, but instead are basing it on what they think the company will be earning 5-10 years out. If one thinks the company will be able to generate $50 Billion in net income in 2030, then the current valuation looks cheap. However if someone disagrees and thinks the company will only be earning $10 Billion at that date, then of course the company looks insanely overvalued. I expect the stock price to have big moves up and down over the next few years as the likelihood of either the bullish or bearish outcome increases or decreases as events play out.
    Yes its hard to get a handle on Tesla at current prices though, its priced for perfection, its worth more then all the other car makers put together im told. But Tesla is the prime disruptive mover in a market where demand is going to keep exploding upwards especially as Climate Change action becomes essential, being just one reason.Tesla is also a leading edge innovator and has other strings like auto driven and power wall batteries. EV Trucks with big payloads wont be far away and auto driven ones close behind.Scania are well on the way here too, what a huge mkt that will be. Still i cant bring myself to buy at current prices. The current dropping in the Tesla s/p may bring an opportunity.

    My friend who ive mentioned is re $3 million up now from Tesla and some ARK K (hold re 10% tesla). If only id acted on his advice year ago id be up 800% or so, sa la vie ATPIT.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dassets View Post
    I love this. My Tesla short one of the best ever. Here comes $200.
    Tesla shorters lost US$38 Billion in 2020 alone, that is about $10 Billion more than Tesla has raised in capital in total.

  7. #227
    FEAR n GREED JBmurc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crypto Crude View Post
    Lasereyekiwi,

    You know I have a degree in finance and I'm qualified to give financial advice...

    So Tesla are making high gross margins on their cars... whoop de do...
    How much net profit are they making...
    Actual fluff all...
    Tesla don't make money, they earn and sell pollution credits which keep them afloat, they earn credits from the government for producing zero emissions cars..
    If you take those credits away they lose money...!!!
    Tesla doesn't make enough money to warrant it a profitable company... they produced loser type earnings numbers since the company began.. the sort of profits that a Elon musk fan boy wouldn't even care about anyway... Tesla had earnings per share of 24 cents on a GAAP basis for the quarter that ended Dec. 31, 2020, and 64 cents for the year. Full-year net income was $721 million. Quarterly revenue, led by sales of the company’s Model 3 and Model Y electric vehicles, was $10.7 billion and the annual tally was a best-ever $31.5 billion.

    EPS 64 cents for the year $750 share price...
    Do you see a problem here fan boy???
    ...
    What happens is US automakers must sell a certain percentage of zero emissions cars...
    Or have to buy regulatory credits... Tesla is net positive these credits because it is exclusively electric..
    So how much money is this worth?

    $3.3 billion over the last 5 years...
    In 2020 that amount was worth $1.6 billion...
    2020 Tesla net income was only 721 million...
    Meaning without these credits Tesla would have a net loss !!!
    These credits are interpreted to end in the future...
    There is more and more competition for electric cars coming...

    Tesla had never made a profit up until 2020 which is still below 1 billion dollars !!!...
    For a 800 billion dollar company dude you are trying to pull the wool over our eyes by saying wow look at these great gross margins .. LOL 😆

    Tesla will get hung out to dry badly and late investors will get burnt the worst...

    Tesla has a cult like following and does not even closely warrant its current value ....

    I'm always looking for investments and I would struggle to want to pay $100 per share...

    Tesla is a looming financial market... ka boom 💥
    Well something we agree on CC Tesla is one massive bubble .. like many stocks with Billion caps with nil net profits from operations ...
    "With a good perspective on history, we can have a better understanding of the past and present, and thus a clear vision of the future." — Carlos Slim Helu

  8. #228
    FEAR n GREED JBmurc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crypto Crude View Post
    Hey buddy,
    If you liked making money then we would agree on everything...
    You have really pizzed away a lot of opportunity cost...and your about to get shocked right off...
    ...

    Where has laser eye kiwi gone?
    Have they lost their sight and cant see the trees from the woods...
    I'm gona always be honest so if that means getting stuck right in then so be it...
    I can promise you we don't have to agree for me to make money ...I like to invest in real assets got my eye on another Commercial property 60k+ net income pa ... all goes to plan will buy outright with my 20/21 ASX profit .....

    Cashflow is King ... just ask all these Tech Giants announcing losses .... they survive off raising capital with BIG dreams of forward earnings will end in tears...
    "With a good perspective on history, we can have a better understanding of the past and present, and thus a clear vision of the future." — Carlos Slim Helu

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaserEyeKiwi View Post
    I wouldn't take any financial advice, in crypto or otherwise, from anyone who deosnt know how to read a company financial statement (because if someone says Tesla "just dont make money" - then that person obviously have never bothered too or doesnt know how to read an income statement.)

    =====

    Tesla has amongst the highest gross margins on their vehicles of any car manufacturer building at scale, that is a fact easily confirmed by simply comparing income statements - it's not an opinion, it is simply the reality that Tesla cars are sold with a very high profit margin. (And yes that is without "regulatory credits" which are 100% gross margin - a nice cherry on top.)

    Meanwhile, as Tesla has been growing gross margins, the company operating expenses (SG&A and R&D costs) have remained relatively flat (or actually reduced) even with rapidly growing shipment volume. This is because much of the operating expenses are fixed costs unrelated to the number of cars shipped, therefore as shipments increase the gross margin earned from the additional shipments starts flowing increasingly straight to the operating profit bottom line. This is a classic example of operating leverage leading to dramatically higher profit growth. In other words, once the gross margin from shipments was large enough to cover the fixed operating expenses, the additional growth in shipments is all flowing to profits.

    This is the primary reason why the company is valued so highly at present. If Tesla grows its car shipments as expected throughout this decade (from 500k cars last year to 5-10 million cars annually by decade end), AND is able to maintain impressive gross margins, then all that additional gross margin generated above the 500k annual shipment level will flow mostly through to gigantic profit growth. Any additional profits from Tesla's growing non-car business segments (energy & services, and any new markets entered like FSD fleet potentially) will accelerate the profits.

    In short, people aren't assigning a $750 Billion valuation based on Tesla's current earnings, but instead are basing it on what they think the company will be earning 5-10 years out. If one thinks the company will be able to generate $50 Billion in net income in 2030, then the current valuation looks cheap. However if someone disagrees and thinks the company will only be earning $10 Billion at that date, then of course the company looks insanely overvalued. I expect the stock price to have big moves up and down over the next few years as the likelihood of either the bullish or bearish outcome increases or decreases as events play out.
    It appears to be you who does not know how to value a company. All you have to do is look at the valuations of the biggest automakers in the world to see that Tesla is not being valued as a car company. If tesla was going to be as profitable as Toyota or Daimler in 10 years (a BIG call) they should be trading at about half their value currently (using a WACC of say 7% which is quite low). Instead I read their market cap was more than the next 5 largest auto makers combined.

    They are obviously being valued as more than a car company (e.g. self driving was brought up earlier...) OR millions of redditors that do not know how to value companies 'like the stonk'.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by James108 View Post
    It appears to be you who does not know how to value a company. All you have to do is look at the valuations of the biggest automakers in the world to see that Tesla is not being valued as a car company. If tesla was going to be as profitable as Toyota or Daimler in 10 years (a BIG call) they should be trading at about half their value currently (using a WACC of say 7% which is quite low). Instead I read their market cap was more than the next 5 largest auto makers combined.

    They are obviously being valued as more than a car company (e.g. self driving was brought up earlier...) OR millions of redditors that do not know how to value companies 'like the stonk'.
    What are you on about? I personally made no valuation of the company in my previous post: All I did was explain to you how most Tesla bulls are placing value on the company (its far future profits).

    Notice the one thing I did say I expect to happen with the share price: "I expect the stock price to have big moves up and down over the next few years as the likelihood of either the bullish or bearish outcome increases or decreases as events play out."
    If you really must know, I sold most of my holdings at $811, and the remainder at $700. The risk/reward ratio just didn't stack up at those higher prices for my own personal investing style.

    I value each company independently - I don't care what industry they are in: every company should be valued on its own fundamentals. There is no set rule for how a "car company" should be valued. There are a multitude of different type of car companies all with different growth & profitability profiles. some are absolute dogs, some are high margin beasts. For instance there is a reason Porsche is valued at between $50-$100 billion despite the fact it only makes a few hundred thousand cars a year - its because that's what its own profitability and growth profile dictates.

    Treating each company differently is why no one values Apple like a computer, phone or tablet manufacturer (these 3 products are notoriously low margin for most companies who make them).

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