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  1. #231
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    You told someone else they didn't know how to value a company then went on to talk about gross margin and operating leverage like it matters at all to their valuation. Their manufacturing capability clearly is not why they are valued so highly. I set out a case why I think their car manufacturing is worth a fraction of their market cap (at best half the value of Toyota, VW, Daimler).

    What was the Tesla the market cap when you bought at and how did you ascertain that was fair value or cheaper?

    Also Porsche is part of Volkswagen - which has a market cap of $193B Euro. I seriously doubt the porsche segment is worth near the figures you stated and certainly not half the value of volkswagon which includes VW (duh) audi, bentley, lamborghini, Skoda etc. I don't think you have a clue.

  2. #232
    DFABPCLMB
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    FYI last month Ark amended their target SP for Tesla for 2024 from US$7,000 (dated Jan 2020) to US$3,000 for 2025.

  3. #233
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    There was a 5 for 1 share split around mid 2020 for tesla shares. That means there $7000 price target for 2024 was in fact $1400

  4. #234
    DFABPCLMB
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    Nice catch. I'm not following it that closely so that would explain what appears to be a decrease is actually an increase. For me the jury is out on such valuations....I have no opinion and no position.

  5. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dassets View Post
    I love this. My Tesla short one of the best ever. Here comes $200.
    From that date of post TLSA (was in market earlier though) S&P up about 10% and TSLA down 10%. Stellantis only the start of more real world pain for TSLA. It has announced no more purchase of credits, circa 300m euro pa(TLSA 2/3rds). This is effectively a no-cost revenue stream for TSLA. Other manufacturers will follow Stellantis next 1-2 years.

    Hope TSLA continues to make money long crypto as a replacement for the regulatory credits. Now where is that iceberg I am selling!!

  6. #236
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    It will be interesting to see how much Stellantis pay to get out of the pooling contract that FCA have with Tesla. Tesla recorded $518 million in regulatory credits in the most recent quarter, I have seen it mentioned that about $60 million of those were from FCA. VW was a big buyer in China (and expect to be for another 18 months or so). Unfortunately the VW ID3 seems to be selling in low numbers in Europe, hopefully the ID4 will do better.
    The European regulators are unhappy about how little mileage those with company PHEV actual do using electricity. It appears most of them almost never plug in, so look to further regulation and reduction of subsidies there.
    Let's hope the Legacy car companies do pull their fingers out and stop gifting Tesla all of that money. In the meantime Tesla would be silly to decline their generous contributions.
    If Legacy auto don't get it together the Chinese will eat them alive. Volvo. Polestar, MG, Nio and Xpeng and other Chinese car companies are already dipping their toes in the European market.

  7. #237
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    As a matter of interest this was in the FCA report for the third quarter of 2020
    Regulatory emission credits During the year ended December 31, 2019, FCA entered into multi-year non-cancellable agreements for purchases of regulatory emissions credits in various jurisdictions. At September 30, 2020, these agreements represent total commitments of €0.6 billion, with the related purchased credits expected to be used for compliance years through 2023

  8. #238
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    Tesla has suspended acceptance of bitcoin for cars on environmental concerns. The issue that is emerging is that fund redemptions seem to be increasing for guys like Cathy at ARK. This is feeding into selling of other stocks similar in nature. I have seen this before become a real problem.

  9. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dassets View Post
    Tesla has suspended acceptance of bitcoin for cars on environmental concerns. The issue that is emerging is that fund redemptions seem to be increasing for guys like Cathy at ARK. This is feeding into selling of other stocks similar in nature. I have seen this before become a real problem.
    Environmental concerns, yea right. Elon is just making it up as he goes along. One minute its bitcoin this, dogecoin that, he's full of it.

  10. #240
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    Tesla down over 12% this week and broken down through its 200 day moving average which confirms a new downtrend. Reports are out that their very important Model Y is not selling well in the key Chinese market.

    What have ATM shareholders learned about holding shares in a confirmed downtrend in the last 9 months ?

    You'd have to be very "brave" to hold Tesla shares now.
    Ecclesiastes 11:2: “Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.
    Ben Graham - In the short run the market is a voting machine but in the long run the market is a weighing machine

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