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Thread: Rugby

  1. #1021
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    At some point common sense will prevail and people will realize there is nothing wrong at all with the name Crusaders. In much the same way there is nothing wrong with the names Chiefs or Warriors. The Perpetually Offended will find some new target for their angst and life will move on. In the meantime sensible people just need to stand strong and firm against minority attention seeking agitators.
    Talking of attention seeking minority agitators, there is a good item from the abc on religious postings and sports. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-...union/11138902

    What defines a religion? Can you create your own religion, perhaps taking elements of several religions, with all sorts of anti-social beliefs and then claim freedom of religious expression when espousing these anti-social beliefs?

    Can you claim to be of a particular religion even if your public delcarations may actually show that you do not believe in key parts of the faith to which you claim to belong?
    Last edited by Bjauck; 23-05-2019 at 12:04 PM.

  2. #1022
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Talking of attention seeking minority agitators, there is a good item from the abc on religious postings and sports. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-...union/11138902

    What defines a religion? Can you create your own religion, perhaps taking elements of several religions, with all sorts of anti-social beliefs and then claim freedom of religious expression when espousing these anti-social beliefs?

    Can you claim to be of a particular religion even if your public delcarations may actually show that you do not believe in key parts of the faith to which you claim to belong?
    The easiest way to answer your questions is to look at Pastafarians who belong to the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. This Church has been allowed to conduct wedding Ceremonies in NZ since 2015.

  3. #1023
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    What Is Folau’s religion? He does not actually believe in the trinity of God as this twitter post stated:. https://mobile.twitter.com/izzyfolau...472384?lang=en

    However that does not make a difference as he still has freedom to pursue his religion, whether Unitarian or Trinitarian. Just as others have the freedom not to be associated with his expressed broadcast aspects of his particular faith.

    Should be interesting to see what happens now that he has decided to skip the disputes procedure at RA and go for the big QC gun.
    He's young and needs to increase his understanding. Just because he plays sports well doesn't make him any sort of authority on theological matters and I doubt I would bother to listen to his sermons if he can't get the basics right.

    Getting back to the subject matter https://www.msn.com/en-nz/sport/rugb...cid=spartandhp
    Last edited by Beagle; 23-05-2019 at 01:12 PM.

  4. #1024
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    He's young and needs to increase his understanding. Just because he plays sports well doesn't make him any sort of authority on theological matters and I doubt I would bother to listen to his sermons if he can't get the basics right.

    Getting back to the subject matter https://www.msn.com/en-nz/sport/rugb...cid=spartandhp
    Folau seems to be deciding whether to sue for breach of contract and religious discrimination.

    Breach of contract is one matter.
    However, For a claim on religious discrimination he must presumably establish that he has a religion, and what that religion is. Also perhaps, he may need to establish that his posts on homosexuals and other “sinners” is consistent with how that religion is practised,

    His post on Unitarianism/Trinitarianism is relevant in determining his actual religion. If he is a Unitarian, Would his social media posts be consistent with the expression of Unitarianism?

    Unitarianism rejects the concept of original sin and rejects the infallibility of the bible.
    Last edited by Bjauck; 24-05-2019 at 08:50 AM.

  5. #1025
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post

    His post on Unitarianism/Trinitarianism is relevant in determining his actual religion. If he is a Unitarian, Would his social media posts be consistent with the expression of Unitarianism?

    Unitarianism rejects the concept of original sin and rejects the infallibility of the bible.
    I would not be so sure of that. He could also be a Jehovah's witness who as a group do not accept the Trinity but do accept the concept of original sin and they denounce homosexual behavior as a sin too. Many mainstream Christians accept the Trinity but some do not however still believe the teachings of Paul in the letters to the Romans that homosexuality and idolatory and drunkeness etc are sins. They would not put a human label such as Trinitarianism or such (first time I have heard of it and as an aside the word Trinity is never mentioned in the bible)

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    I would not be so sure of that. He could also be a Jehovah's witness who as a group do not accept the Trinity but do accept the concept of original sin and they denounce homosexual behavior as a sin too. Many mainstream Christians accept the Trinity but some do not however still believe the teachings of Paul in the letters to the Romans that homosexuality and idolatory and drunkeness etc are sins. They would not put a human label such as Trinitarianism or such (first time I have heard of it and as an aside the word Trinity is never mentioned in the bible)
    If you claim to have been discriminated as a result of your religion, just what religion you have is important.

    How much can your actual beliefs vary from the religion, to which you claim to belong. If you claim belong to a church with both an uncompromising attitude against homosexuality and a firm belief in Christ’s divinity and the trinity, can you have religious freedom to express the condemnation of homosexuality (and protection against hate speech) whilst denying the Trinity of God - or other key tenets of the religion/denomination?

    Or - can every body have an individual personalised religion and claim religious freedom for what other people and society may consider bigotry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    If you claim to have been discriminated as a result of your religion, just what religion you have is important.

    How much can your actual beliefs vary from the religion, to which you claim to belong. If you claim belong to a church with both an uncompromising attitude against homosexuality and a firm belief in Christ’s divinity and the trinity, can you have religious freedom to express the condemnation of homosexuality (and protection against hate speech) whilst denying the Trinity of God - or other key tenets of the religion/denomination?

    Or - can every body have an individual personalised religion and claim religious freedom for what other people and society may consider bigotry?
    Imagine there's no heaven
    It's easy if you try
    No hell below us
    Above us only sky
    Imagine all the people living for today

    Imagine there's no countries
    It isn't hard to do
    Nothing to kill or die for
    And no religion too

    Imagine all the people living life in peace
    You may say I'm a dreamer
    But I'm not the only one
    I hope some day you'll join us
    And the world will be as one
    Last edited by fungus pudding; 25-05-2019 at 08:57 AM.

  8. #1028
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post

    Imagine all the people living life in peace...
    It is ironic that John Lennon made money from songs of peace whilst he gave money to the IRA at the height of terrorism in Northern Ireland.
    https://www.independent.ie/world-new...-26125005.html
    Last edited by Bjauck; 25-05-2019 at 09:15 AM.

  9. #1029
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    Waratahs lost against the Jaguares, again. I bet they are wishing they had another world class player in their team. As I am sure the Wallabies will be as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Waratahs lost against the Jaguares, again. I bet they are wishing they had another world class player in their team. As I am sure the Wallabies will be as well.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...ave-been-worse

  11. #1031
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    "I think one of the pleasing things is the reaction we've had from other sports in Australia and overseas."
    Like the Cricket Code that lets players keep their jobs after pre-planned cheating at international level.

    And we cant even begin to list the multitude of offences committed by League players who keep their jobs (we could start with Tyrone May - charged for sex tape offences)

    Did Tolu Latu keep his job after being found drink driving - one of the biggest social menaces we have.

  12. #1032
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    Their Chair is showing it really all about the money, they really cannot foresee the possibility their comments are used in a court case...

  13. #1033
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    Score just in for the weeks important game: Christchurch Boys high 31 vs Christ college 13.

  14. #1034
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    Quote Originally Posted by greater fool View Post
    If you bring a claim for having your “religious freedom” compromised, what will be the onus of proof necessary in establishing what fairh you have.

    Will you need to be able to show frequent and regular attendance at meetings? Would a self-declaration be sufficient?

    For example, would someone who has not attended a service for years and declaims or is ignorant on several important pillars of their declared faith, still be able to claim religious freedom as a defence or as a cause for a legal action?

  15. #1035
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    Rugby Australia is killing Australian rugby
    by Lushington D. Brady on June 2, 2019 at 2:30pm

    As US cable sports giant ESPN learned the hard way, “get woke, go broke” is more than a meme: it’s a harsh, dollars-and-cents reality. Corporate sports and entertainment giants indulge far-left, “progressive” fantasies at their peril. As ESPN eschewed sports commentary for “woke” political agitation, in tune with the Trump-derangement of the rest of the legacy media, millions of subscribers walked. Similarly, as the “take a knee” controversy engulfed American football, crowd numbers plunged.

    Rugby Australia has learned nothing from these debacles.


    As the Israel Folau fiasco threatens to engulf and potentially sink Australian rugby, the rugby family is losing patience while the game’s administration is losing any semblance of support.

    Just as in the recent federal election, what Scott Morrison called the “quiet Australians” had only one avenue of protest against Bill Shorten and that was at the ballot box, so the rugby supporter has manifested his/her concern (and there are as many women in revolt as men) by refusing to make the turnstiles turn.

    The anger over RA’s treatment of Folau is palpable. Even many people who don’t at all agree with his views are nonetheless outraged that simply quoting the Bible on your own time could be a sackable offense. Opinion polling shows that Australians solidly support freedom of belief, and religious freedom is believed to have played a significant role in the Coalition’s election victory.


    The Waratahs’ support is usually around 15,000, regardless of where they play. Since the Folau issue, that has dipped to 10,000 if you are lucky.

    It is so much of a concern that last Saturday, the Waratahs asked for the King’s School v Waverley College 1st XV trial game to be a curtain-raiser to mask the drop in crowd numbers.

    Schoolboy rugby draws big crowds…

    The Brumbies have slipped from around 8000 per match to 6000 — a 25 per cent drop. Make no mistake, the rugby family have had a gutful.

    There were probably more supporters at the Scots College v St Joseph’s trial match last Saturday than there were at the Brumbies v Bulls Super Rugby match.

    […] To put this in perspective, last year’s final State of Origin rugby league match had around 11 million viewers…This is what is possible when a game is well administered and well run.

    The Folau controversy is only part of a broader problem of mismanagement at RA, especially under Raelene Castle. AFL management are often just as “woke”, but have so far managed to avoid pissing off their fans too much, with the possible exception of the Adam Goodes controversy in 2017. On the other hand, when The Footy Show AFL edition went full SJW this year, it tanked and died with astonishing rapidity.

    The AFL might do well to watch what is happening to rugby.

    When are we going to face the reality, post-Folau, that, due to the mismanagement of our game by the board and the executive, we could be bankrupt in 12 months.

    It seems that only the rugby family understands this.

    Among the thousands of comments to my recent articles, Dean says: “This is a disgraceful episode. RA have lost the plot. More interested in PC and sponsors than fans and long-term supporters…I am convinced the game is doomed in this country. I’ve turned it off and am now following the NRL. Sad times.”

    theaustralian

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