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  1. #931
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    So we can agree Folau was being factual.
    Certainly not as far as atheists go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    RA going to do the late Friday afternoon the day before an election trick and hope nobody notices what the outcome is.
    Looks like you are right. Still no news.

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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Looks like you are right. Still no news.
    Even better for them with Bob Hawke splashed across the pages as well
    “In a roaring bull market, knowledge is superfluous and experience is a handicap.”

    –Benjamin Graham”

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    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/new...ectid=12231464

    The CEO of Qantas Alan Joyce is known to be openly Gay and has obviously had a huge hand in commercially pressuring RA to take the action they have.
    Tens of millions of sponsorship money talks and anyone who thinks otherwise is commercially naïve. I hope this matter sees the light of day at the Supreme court because there are some very important legal principle's at work here including the right to freedom of expression and freedom of speech in terms of one's religious beliefs and unless there is a specific clause in his agreement where he contractually agreed not to express those beliefs in social media forums then he should be free to do so. I hope RA gets taken to the cleaners in the Supreme court.
    I will not watch another rugby match involving the Wallabies again in protest until such time as RA are found to be in breech of contract and forced to settle this matter.
    Last edited by Beagle; 17-05-2019 at 07:07 PM.
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  5. #935
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    I'm disgusted with the decision. I too am boycotting all Australian rugby (will free up a few Saturday nights!) and qantas

  6. #936
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    I'm disgusted with the decision. I too am boycotting all Australian rugby (will free up a few Saturday nights!) and qantas
    Yes can't get over the media talking about inclusiveness and cannot see the contradiction.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/new...ectid=12231780

    Hope he has some good backers in the community so he doesn't lose his shirt.

  7. #937
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    Yes can't get over the media talking about inclusiveness and cannot see the contradiction.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/new...ectid=12231780

    Hope he has some good backers in the community so he doesn't lose his shirt.
    He's wealthy and can afford a fight, surely he'll appeal and likely take RA to the cleaners. I'll continue watching rugby, it's a game I love watching, not the BS in the back office or being played out in the media.

  8. #938
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/new...ectid=12231464

    The CEO of Qantas Alan Joyce is known to be openly Gay and has obviously had a huge hand in commercially pressuring RA to take the action they have.
    Tens of millions of sponsorship money talks and anyone who thinks otherwise is commercially naïve. I hope this matter sees the light of day at the Supreme court because there are some very important legal principle's at work here including the right to freedom of expression and freedom of speech in terms of one's religious beliefs and unless there is a specific clause in his agreement where he contractually agreed not to express those beliefs in social media forums then he should be free to do so. I hope RA gets taken to the cleaners in the Supreme court.
    I will not watch another rugby match involving the Wallabies again in protest until such time as RA are found to be in breech of contract and forced to settle this matter.
    I doubt that any contract preventing someone spouting their religious views would hold water in court. It's all about freedom of speech; you cannot contract outside the law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    I doubt that any contract preventing someone spouting their religious views would hold water in court. It's all about freedom of speech; you cannot contract outside the law.
    Hence the RA are screwed, if Folau chooses. Maybe the RA deserves it.

  10. #940
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    He's wealthy and can afford a fight, surely he'll appeal and likely take RA to the cleaners. I'll continue watching rugby, it's a game I love watching, not the BS in the back office or being played out in the media.
    Its not a huge call on my part as I am not a massive rugby fan - though i do enjoy a game and a wine on Saturdays. I guess for me its about "enabling" this behavior. I allow my moral compass to sway on loads of things - but one thing I dont is the right to speak freely. So I'm not going to "enable" RA or Qantas, and sadly nz advertisers and NZ rugby miss out on those days NZ and Oz clash. I know I'll make no difference - but at some point we need to make a stand.

  11. #941
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/new...ectid=12231464

    The CEO of Qantas Alan Joyce is known to be openly Gay and has obviously had a huge hand in commercially pressuring RA to take the action they have.
    Tens of millions of sponsorship money talks and anyone who thinks otherwise is commercially naïve. I hope this matter sees the light of day at the Supreme court because there are some very important legal principle's at work here including the right to freedom of expression and freedom of speech in terms of one's religious beliefs and unless there is a specific clause in his agreement where he contractually agreed not to express those beliefs in social media forums then he should be free to do so. I hope RA gets taken to the cleaners in the Supreme court.
    I will not watch another rugby match involving the Wallabies again in protest until such time as RA are found to be in breech of contract and forced to settle this matter.
    yeh totally
    I am flabbergasted at the mainstream approach to spit on Folau - I may or may not agree with him - but yeh he can say what he believes.

    And even more flabbergasting is when Raewyn Castle RA CEO (another kiwi getting grief right now) has the temerity to say this

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle;
    But our clear message to all rugby fans today is that we need to stand by our values and the qualities of inclusion, ...
    okay lets be inclusive by excluding someone who happens to be (maybe) our best player.
    the world needs to get over itself, and accept different views as being part of the makeup of diversity.
    Such an oxymoron
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  12. #942
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    Yes can't get over the media talking about inclusiveness and cannot see the contradiction.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/new...ectid=12231780

    Hope he has some good backers in the community so he doesn't lose his shirt.
    Twiggy Forrest might throw in a few coppers

  13. #943
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    I doubt that any contract preventing someone spouting their religious views would hold water in court. It's all about freedom of speech; you cannot contract outside the law.
    A contract is unenforceable if it would result in the commission of a crime.

    In relation to the freedom to promote one’s religious views in one’s own time, This case from the UK is relevant:
    https://www.lawandreligionuk.com/201...dom-of-speech/

    It seems that the legal test could be: would a reasonable reader of his post conclude that his postings were made on his employer’s behalf?
    Last edited by Bjauck; 18-05-2019 at 10:57 AM.

  14. #944
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    ...
    It is often said that living with depression is like living in hell. Homosexuals experience depression at 3 times the rate of the rest of the population...
    Young men in general have a high suicide rate. Men suicide at rate higher than women. Many groups have depression rates greater than the general population.

    If you are surrounded by non-acceptance and by people who tell you that you will have a miserable fate if you do not repent your sexuality, then I guess you will be more prone to depression.

  15. #945
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Young men in general have a high suicide rate. Men suicide at rate higher than women. Many groups have depression rates greater than the general population.

    If you are surrounded by non-acceptance and by people who tell you that you will have a miserable fate if you do not repent your sexuality, then I guess you will be more prone to depression.
    Folau is entitled to express his viewpoint. He is not surrounding anyone, nor is he forcing anyone to listen to his viewpoint. He's aspiring to be a preacher and many choose to attend and listen to his viewpoint and others choose to look at his social media posts and most don't.
    What we have here...and lets just call a spade a spade is a Gay man Alan Joyce the CEO of Qantas in a very thinly veiled way threatening to withdraw tens of millions of dollars of annual sponsorship because he took offence at Folau's post and RA kowtowing to his request.

    What this amounts too, to be quite clear about it, is a Gay person in a position to exercise quite considerable influence, forcing their opinion on others and trying to undermine many people's right to freedom of religious expression and that's a big problem for a heck of a lot of people.

    That's a very dangerous route to go down and RA stands to lose a lot of respect from a huge percentage of the population who value the right to freedom of speech and expression.

    With all due respect if Gay people choose to surround themselves with people who don't accept them and get depressed about it that's their problem not Folau's.

    I think there is a very high probability that RA gets held in breech of contract in the Supreme court and that will cost them the $4m contract to settle plus Folau's costs which financially is of course a LOT less than losing Qantas's annual sponsorship money so they think they're ahead but I think they have lost something far more valuable, the respect of many millions people who will hold the administration in contempt of people's basic human right to freedom of expression.

    Major damage will be done to the Wallabies and RA reputation and this will be enduring for many years in my opinion. Millions less people will watch rugby matches involving the Wallabies and Qantas will get much less bang for their buck with their sponsorship money.
    Last edited by Beagle; 18-05-2019 at 12:04 PM.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

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