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  1. #1051
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    Crusaders to remain the Crusaders

    All done and dusted ...kept a few occupied discussing the issue but common sense prevailed
    “In a roaring bull market, knowledge is superfluous and experience is a handicap.”

    –Benjamin Graham”

  2. #1052
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    I've had a reply from Rugby Australia - so kudos to them for getting back to me.

    They say

    "Of Israel’s several religious posts on his social media accounts, there has been three - one in April 2018, and a further two in April 2019 that Rugby Australia believes did not align with the values of inclusion and respect, and placed Israel in breach of his obligations as a Rugby Australia employee."

    This, for a start is a problem for them. A companies "values" are a very low level of compliance. Your basic hierarchy is: a values statement, a Code, and employment contract, a law. In there somewhere you also have your Country signatory to UN declarations on labor rights and civil rights. You cant contract out of the law. You cant impose on people things that are inconsistent with the law. You cant take action that may see a person fired because of religion - even if it is in your "values": statement.

    RA also say "These specific posts were disrespectful to some members of the Rugby community.". This RA's next problem. Being disrespectful is not a sackable offence. There is a concept in law that a punishment has to be proportional to the crime. It is not proportional for some people to (allegedly) have been disrespected to lose a $10m benefit from employment. Casltes is on public records of having received hundreds of letter showing disrespect - these letters now become discoverable and thc content will form part of the providential trial.

    RA say "After the 2018 post, Israel was warned of his contractual obligations both verbally and formally with regards to respectful social media use and it was explained that the nature of his post was offensive to certain members of the community." This is there next problem. It is now well established that there is no social media clause in Folaus contract. The best RA can rely on is the Code.

    RA say "Despite these warnings and Israel’s understanding of the distress that his 2018 post caused to some members of the Rugby community, he chose to make posts of a similar nature in April 2019, leaving Rugby Australia with no choice but to seek disciplinary action." this is there next problem. Do they seriously think it is their job to stop all distress befalling the Rugby community. What about the community that supports free religious speech - they will be distressed. What about loosing a game of rugby - they will be distressed. What about a bad referee call - people will be distressed. RA's primary focus should be ensuring rugby players play the very best rugby they can on the field. Off filed - that is an issue between the individual and the laws of the country.

    RA say "Israel has had an opportunity to state his case before an independent tribunal and the Tribunal found that his posts constituted a high-level breach of the Code of Conduct and directed Rugby Australia to terminate his contract." This is a problem for a RA. Prior to this independent tribunal RA had already decided to terminate Folaus contract. This is a massive breech of natural justice due process.


    RA say "We are saddened to lose the services of a wonderful Rugby player but will not compromise on the values of inclusion and respect that have and will continue to make Rugby a game for all." This is another problem for RA. As mentioned they have to compromise if their position is at odds with the law. There was nothing in Folaus post that specifically "disrespected" rugby players or those touched by rugby. Rugby was not mentioned at all. He did not use RA'a resources to post.

    RA say"Our game needs to continue to be a safe and welcoming environment for people of any race, gender, religion, sexuality or background.". There is so much irony in that statement. But the issue is that Folaus post was not about stopping people entering rugby. It was about preventing people from entering hell. And thats the next problem for RA. Working to help prevent people from going to a bad place is a respectful thing to do, not disrespectful. Foalu didn't hope people would go to hell. He didn't wish they would - he hoped for the opposite.

    Take a look at this!! haha!

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...ugby-australia

  3. #1053
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    Folau’s exercise of his freeedom of expression for his particular brand of Christianity is also being paid for by his team-mates.
    https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-u...09-p51vy3.html

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    ..........
    Last edited by minimoke; 22-06-2019 at 08:55 AM. Reason: Deleted by Minimoke in response to STMOD censorship of posts

  5. #1055
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    It didn't have to go teh way it did.

    RA could have said "we respect Folaus right to express his firmly held religious views but we neither agree nor disagree with them. That is for individuals to form a view". Would have been the end of the story. Except CEO of Qantas wouldn't have been satisfied.
    His postings were always going to be controversial in today's Australian society - and Folau would have known that.

    So mindful that RA has the stated goal to "Make Rugby a game for all – Our Community" they would have to take strong action with a leading players continued postings to stay true to that goal. The community includes both homosexuals and heterosexuals - with no discrimination. IMO that would be their motivation and not at all religious discrimination.

  6. #1056
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    Yep. Great bloke, wanted God all over us as well as taking the money, seems they are good bedfellows, mix a bit of control in and you've got contemporary religion.

  7. #1057
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    ..........
    Last edited by minimoke; 22-06-2019 at 08:55 AM. Reason: Deleted by Minimoke in response to STMOD censorship of posts

  8. #1058
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    "The clamour by the name-change brigade hasn't just been unsuccessful but unseemly. It certainly wasn't driven by the Muslim community, who unlike the ringleaders of this campaign, maintained their dignity."

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/chr...being-retained

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    "The clamour by the name-change brigade hasn't just been unsuccessful but unseemly. It certainly wasn't driven by the Muslim community, who unlike the ringleaders of this campaign, maintained their dignity."

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/chr...being-retained
    "I've just got home from enthralling Qatar”

    I am sure the residents of Qatar were really thrilled to have Mike there.

    westerly

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    "The clamour by the name-change brigade hasn't just been unsuccessful but unseemly. It certainly wasn't driven by the Muslim community, who unlike the ringleaders of this campaign, maintained their dignity."

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/chr...being-retained
    Talking about historical revisionism...."In the case of the Crusades, for better or worse, it was a determined mission to try and liberate Christian lands, subsumed by rampaging Muslim armies." Second and forth crusades too? Classic! Let's ignore that the crusaders were also often a rampaging invading army and Crusaders Rugby have played on that mounted weaponised imagery.
    Canterbury Jihadis or Crusaders.

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    ..........
    Last edited by minimoke; 22-06-2019 at 08:55 AM. Reason: Deleted by Minimoke in response to STMOD censorship of posts

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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Some people will be crusading to see the end of things like the Wanaka Air Show - with all that military imagery. Even Parliaments Sargent at Arms will be at risk - that originates from protecting Richard 1 in the Crusades.
    post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy?
    Last edited by Bjauck; 12-06-2019 at 10:30 AM.

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    ..........
    Last edited by minimoke; 20-06-2019 at 10:18 AM. Reason: Deleted by Minimoke in response to STMOD censorship of posts

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    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...sgender-people
    Folau doubles down and also lays into other Christians. However he no longer works for an organisation with a policy of inclusivity.

  15. #1065
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    Crusaders to remain the Crusaders

    All done and dusted ...kept a few occupied discussing the issue but common sense prevailed

    Nice to see the Crusaders horses at the quarters..the reception they received said a lot!

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