OCA - Oceania Group - retirement villages

[Rawz]

looks like we might have a rights issue on our hands soon if all the gos on the SKT thread pans out. What's an appropriate rights issue discount to fund the purchase of Sky's Mt Wellington property to you reckon?

But OCA already raised cash not so long ago.

[Muse]

But OCA already raised cash not so long ago.

ah doyeee good point. i'm a bit of a simp this morning

[justakiwi]

I have no intention of giving you any hate, but I do want to say this. Anyone who has ever invested in OCA, has known from Day 1, that they are a care focused business. OCA have always been transparent about that. Brent mentioned it several times in the video I posted the link to. This makes OCA different from the others in the sector, so maybe it is time analysts and investors started to accept this difference. Comparing OCA with RYM and SUM may not be the best way to approach things, given that they are actually different beasts.

Nobody can say they didn't know about this focus when they chose to invest. We all did. Some of us made our decision to invest based on that focus. Clearly most did not. If OCA investors no longer understand and support the focus on care, it is probably time for them to take their profits and invest in an aged care company whose focus they do support.

At this point I think its crystal clear OCA are not getting a satisfactory return for shareholders with the care side of their business so the market is discounting them well below their peers, and rightly so in my opinion.

[Bjauck]

...
PS If the Govt force this sector to share capital gains then this is a taste of what people will get...but is that what people really want ? https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...19b12a0d7d7338

I think it is great to have a company offering an alternative way of securing retirement accommodation. Vivid's offering is for a village with fewer amenities and no rest home facilities. That may actually appeal to a slightly different target market. While they say that their residents will be able to share in market gains, given the massive recent low-interest rate stimulated price gains, I think the risk for some time is weighted currently to future losses or minimal gains (especially after refurbishment cost is taken into account.) However there remains the risk of post-Covid heightened inflation of course.

Disc: Arv, Oca, Sum investor

[dobby41]

PS If the Govt force this sector to share capital gains then this is a taste of what people will get...but is that what people really want ? https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...19b12a0d7d7338

There are already outfits like Karaka Pines in the lifestyle sector.
Let's face it, without the care side they would just be lifestyle villages - nothing wrong with that but a different product.

[couta1]

I think it is great to have a company offering an alternative way of securing retirement accommodation. Vivid's offering is for a village with fewer amenities and no rest home facilities. That may actually appeal to a slightly different target market. While they say that their residents will be able to share in market gains, given the massive recent low-interest rate stimulated price gains, I think the risk for some time is weighted currently to future losses or minimal gains (especially after refurbishment cost is taken into account.) However there remains the risk of post-Covid heightened inflation of course.

Disc: Arv, Oca, Sum investor

This alternative will be unattractive to the vast majority looking to enter retirement accommodation so I don't see it as any competition to OCA whatsoever.There are already umpteen villages like this operating around NZ where residents get all or nearly all of their capital back upon resale but of course they don't offer what the vast majority are looking for when they enter a village, in fact some of the ones I have been to over the years are quite isolating for many of the residents and are like mini ghost towns.

[Beagle]

I have no intention of giving you any hate, but I do want to say this. Anyone who has ever invested in OCA, has known from Day 1, that they are a care focused business. OCA have always been transparent about that. Brent mentioned it several times in the video I posted the link to. This makes OCA different from the others in the sector, so maybe it is time analysts and investors started to accept this difference. Comparing OCA with RYM and SUM may not be the best way to approach things, given that they are actually different beasts.

Nobody can say they didn't know about this focus when they chose to invest. We all did. Some of us made our decision to invest based on that focus. Clearly most did not. If OCA investors no longer understand and support the focus on care, it is probably time for them to take their profits and invest in an aged care company whose focus they do support.

Let's be clear here. From day one Earl was singing the praises of the business transformational process and saying shifting the model to care suites was the panacea for lifting returns from care side of the business. That's why a lot of people like me invested, we all thought the care suites were going to be a gold mine. If improved returns from care are happening after rampant care cost inflation its certainly painfully slow, much slower than I believe anyone who originally invested expected. As recently as February 2021 Earl was saying he expected future care costs to rise in line with DHB funding. Obviously that's not happening. One of the reasons I can be super patient to see if this works out is I am free riding this. I only have previous profits invested, nothing more and nothing less. Its not an inconsequential sized share stake I can assure you, its 6 figures. I already invest significantly in ARV and am looking for the right time to get back into SUM.

I think it is great to have a company offering an alternative way of securing retirement accommodation. Vivid's offering is for a village with fewer amenities and no rest home facilities. That may actually appeal to a slightly different target market. While they say that their residents will be able to share in market gains, given the massive recent low-interest rate stimulated price gains, I think the risk for some time is weighted currently to future losses or minimal gains (especially after refurbishment cost is taken into account.) However there remains the risk of post-Covid heightened inflation of course.

Disc: Arv, Oca, Sum investor

I like your style and stock selection in this sector. No harm whatsoever in having a decent sized stake in ARV and SUM as well, in fact I think its a VERY good idea.

This alternative will be unattractive to the vast majority looking to enter retirement accommodation so I don't see it as any competition to OCA whatsoever.There are already umpteen villages like this operating around NZ where residents get all or nearly all of their capital back upon resale but of course they don't offer what the vast majority are looking for when they enter a village, in fact some of the ones I have been to over the years are quite isolating for many of the residents and are like mini ghost towns.

Ouch !! Very good information there mate, thank you. Stick around, you have much to contribute and offer. I believe the more communal facilities a village offers, the more community it generates and this is why the full feature villages ARV, SUM and RYM build are so incredibly popular.

[artemis]

I think it is great to have a company offering an alternative way of securing retirement accommodation. Vivid's offering is for a village with fewer amenities and no rest home facilities. That may actually appeal to a slightly different target market. While they say that their residents will be able to share in market gains, given the massive recent low-interest rate stimulated price gains, I think the risk for some time is weighted currently to future losses or minimal gains (especially after refurbishment cost is taken into account.) However there remains the risk of post-Covid heightened inflation of course.

Disc: Arv, Oca, Sum investor

Agree, a different model is a good thing, and will suit some. I would not like to see people encouraged towards this style of RV by family with an eye to an inheritance though.

One upside of Fletchers going with this approach in volume, over time, is that it will dissuade the government from imposing changes on existing property rights. Which it seems they are working towards, the favoured MO these days.

[bull....]

actually some people want to leave there money to there children over a company

[couta1]

actually some people want to leave there money to there children over a company

I'm glad you said some cause my wife and I have seen hundreds of shocking examples of greedy families wanting money from their parents that they have had nothing to do with for years, they all of a sudden start showing an interest when the grim reaper appears on the scene and then the squabbles begin.