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  1. #18731
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cupsy View Post
    OK, this is a question I have been wondering with regard to "value" of this ORA, they can't lose this money as you say, but they can invest it cant they?, therefore it has to have a value does it not??, my simple mind thinks "whats an easy way to think about a value?", and it comes up with earning 6% in a term deposit. I know im highly likely way off the mark here, so maybe someone can explain it to me?
    I am just looking at the latest balance sheet reflecting the HY2024. There is $10.090m of cash on there. But does that $10.090m include all the cash held that residents have paid into ORA agreements that technically they owe to their residents when they leave? Since the liability side of the balance sheet shows refundable occupation rights of $935.726m, the answer to my question is clearly no. I conclude that the 70% residual ORA money taken in by the company has already been spent on investment property, being the largest asset item on the balance sheet. So forget about investing the 'float', -if that is what you want to call it- at the bank earning 6% interest.

    The so called float money has already been incorporated into the underlying structure of the OCA business and the benefits are there for all to see on the balance sheet. There is no 'hidden' float money that stupid investment fund managers cannot see and has somehow been overlooked, hiding in a long lost corner of the balance sheet. Sad to say the float no longer exists as a separate thing that OCA can 'do what they like with'.

    SNOOPY
    Last edited by Snoopy; 12-02-2024 at 09:48 PM.
    Watch out for the most persistent and dangerous version of Covid-19: B.S.24/7

  2. #18732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post
    I am just looking at the latest balance sheet reflecting the HY2024. There is $10.090m of cash on there. But does that $10.090m include all the cash held that residents have paid into ORA agreements that technically they owe to their residents when they leave? Since the liability side of the balance sheet shows refundable occupation rights of $935.726m, the answer to my question is clearly no. I conclude that the 70% residual ORA money taken in by the company has already been spent on investment property, being the largest asset item on the balance sheet. So forget about investing the 'float', -if that is what you want to call it- at the bank earning 6% interest.

    The so called float money has already been incorporated into the underlying structure of the OCA business and the benefits are there for all to see on the balance sheet. There is no 'hidden' float money that stupid investment fund managers cannot see and has somehow been overlooked, hiding in a long lost corner of the balance sheet. Sad to say the float no longer exists as a separate thing that OCA can 'do what they like with'.

    SNOOPY
    This is so blatantly incorrect, I'll respond tomorrow as to why.

  3. #18733
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post
    I am just looking at the latest balance sheet reflecting the HY2024. There is $10.090m of cash on there. But does that $10.090m include all the cash held that residents have paid into ORA agreements that technically they owe to their residents when they leave? Since the liability side of the balance sheet shows refundable occupation rights of $935.726m, the answer to my question is clearly no. I conclude that the 70% residual ORA money taken in by the company has already been spent on investment property, being the largest asset item on the balance sheet. So forget about investing the 'float', -if that is what you want to call it- at the bank earning 6% interest.

    The so called float money has already been incorporated into the underlying structure of the OCA business and the benefits are there for all to see on the balance sheet. There is no 'hidden' float money that stupid investment fund managers cannot see and has somehow been overlooked, hiding in a long lost corner of the balance sheet. Sad to say the float no longer exists as a separate thing that OCA can 'do what they like with'.

    SNOOPY
    Hi snoopy,
    Sorry, I went off half cocked here, you do actually all-ready explain in your post that it is incorporated into the underlying structure. With regard to a term deposit I was trying to analogize to get some idea in my mind of how it could be thought of in terms of worth, but in retrospect was a poor way of thinking about it i think.

  4. #18734
    Speedy Az winner69's Avatar
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    Seems Rob was right .....the greater the float gets the lower the share price should go

  5. #18735
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    Seems Rob was right .....the greater the float gets the lower the share price should go

    Are you stirring the pot by any chance?

  6. #18736
    ShareTrader Legend bull....'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post
    I am just looking at the latest balance sheet reflecting the HY2024. There is $10.090m of cash on there. But does that $10.090m include all the cash held that residents have paid into ORA agreements that technically they owe to their residents when they leave? Since the liability side of the balance sheet shows refundable occupation rights of $935.726m, the answer to my question is clearly no. I conclude that the 70% residual ORA money taken in by the company has already been spent on investment property, being the largest asset item on the balance sheet. So forget about investing the 'float', -if that is what you want to call it- at the bank earning 6% interest.

    The so called float money has already been incorporated into the underlying structure of the OCA business and the benefits are there for all to see on the balance sheet. There is no 'hidden' float money that stupid investment fund managers cannot see and has somehow been overlooked, hiding in a long lost corner of the balance sheet. Sad to say the float no longer exists as a separate thing that OCA can 'do what they like with'.

    SNOOPY
    that 1 billion ORA money is supervised by a statutory supervisor as under NZ law. they have the powers to tell any RV what to do with that money if they are not happy with what they are doing with it. So no RV can technically do what ever the hell they want with it. but they can invest this int free loan if the supervisor deems it suitable investment.

    So technically they could have invested it all already in the structure yep and thats why no such term as float exists in RV language as it technically does not exist anymore only as a liabiilty.

    thats why profit = DMF < 30% + re-sale gains less costs and lumpy cashflows from these = fv of OCA

    did the supervisor tell oca to stop paying div's Cause they worried about ORA liability ?
    Last edited by bull....; 13-02-2024 at 06:22 AM.
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  7. #18737
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    Looking like sp is going to break below 68c.

    Got down to 45c during the Covid sell down in 2020.

    Sellers now getting more aggressive - not waiting for the retail punters to load up too much before they slam the bid side.

    !
    Last edited by Balance; 13-02-2024 at 10:13 AM.

  8. #18738
    ShareTrader Legend bull....'s Avatar
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    further all the un-sold stock is in effect the ora monies + monies needed to re-pay debt the supervisor is panicking. cut div's cut div's you need much needed cash to re-pay the ORA

    I would be checking what properties the supervisor has lodged a land based security on
    Last edited by bull....; 13-02-2024 at 10:09 AM.
    one step ahead of the herd

  9. #18739
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    Of course the float is already invested in buildings etc, this is the point of it, free money to build stuff. There will never be a cash crunch though, as new punters pay for the apartments and OCA use this to pay out the people leaving...

    Its a good business model. I think MAV has the right of this, its a cashflow game, with OCA coming out of the cash spending phase and into the cash receipts phase as their new builds sell down.

    Not invested, waiting for something silly to happen to the share price in the recession....

  10. #18740
    ShareTrader Legend bull....'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leemsip View Post
    Of course the float is already invested in buildings etc, this is the point of it, free money to build stuff. There will never be a cash crunch though, as new punters pay for the apartments and OCA use this to pay out the people leaving...

    Its a good business model. I think MAV has the right of this, its a cashflow game, with OCA coming out of the cash spending phase and into the cash receipts phase as their new builds sell down.

    Not invested, waiting for something silly to happen to the share price in the recession....
    cash crunch is underway. as per all RV announcements on debt reduction , slow-down construction , concentrate on cashflow. So yes sales are very important going forward to keep the lights on as per mav's focus. but as i say sales not necessarily translate to cashflow.
    one step ahead of the herd

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