OCA - Oceania Group - retirement villages

[BlackPeter]

Dad had dementia and was a lifelong supporter of euthanasia. He would have been very keen to have that option.

Look, - this is the OCA thread.

... but given you already annoyed everybody and while you are here: Euthanasia is a bit like sex. In my view OK with informed consent. Problem is - anybody with dementia is not any longer able to give an informed consent - i.e. now we are talking about legalising murder.

And it is not even about taking dementia patients out of their misery. Maybe you should propose to euthanize the relatives. It is difficult for them, and they do suffer (and I know what I am talking about, my father had dementia as well). However - dementia patients (if well cared for) can be some of the happiest people you can imagine.

I met a number of people with dementia (and obviously accompanied my father these last five years). None of them (when well cared for) was unhappy, and my dad enjoyed these last five years of his life very much. Nice place to live, nice care staff, no need to worry about money, family or anything else. Just enjoying the care, the company - and not even annoyed when we told him three times a day the same story, because he didn't remember.

I find the proposal to euthanise dementia patients uninformed and disgusting - and clearly not in the best interest of the patients. It is plain murder.

But maybe we should move back to OCA, shouldn't we?

[Walter]

Wow, the power, two comments in a month and I annoyed everybody.
Dad was always a supporter, would have eagerly signed documents while he was still legally able to, and he was miserable in his dementia. He got very angry with his loved ones that would not "give him the pillow treatment"
How is this relevant to OCA? Shorter stays for those that opt out of suffering could alter the business model.
Justakiwi is a valuable contributor to this forum and offers incite at a much more knowledgeable level than the few hundred hours I have spent in the company of those with dementia. It is a growing issue, that has long term funding implications. It is also personal as there are genetic links.

[justakiwi]

My last comment before we get back to more specific OCA discussion.

I am a supporter of Assisted Dying as it currently stands, but as much as I hate the realities of dementia that I see in my job, and in my mother, I am not sure that assisted dying for dementia is something I would support. Lots of reasons for this, which I won't go into here, but am happy to elaborate via PM.

I would never want to see OCA, or any other provider, benefitting from "shorter stays for those who opt out of suffering" or to allow themselves to fall into that line of thinking. We are all shareholders looking for returns, but for me, care comes first. Money/returns second. My number one reason for holding OCA is because I want to be a small part of a business that shares my passion for providing quality care. Of course I want a return too, but not at the expense of people. In that respect, I am [going to be the better person and delete this comment.]

Now, I respectfully think we need to get back to OCA. As I said, happy to discuss further behind the scenes if anyone wishes to.

Wow, the power, two comments in a month and I annoyed everybody.
Dad was always a supporter, would have eagerly signed documents while he was still legally able to, and he was miserable in his dementia. He got very angry with his loved ones that would not "give him the pillow treatment"
How is this relevant to OCA? Shorter stays for those that opt out of suffering could alter the business model.
Justakiwi is a valuable contributor to this forum and offers incite at a much more knowledgeable level than the few hundred hours I have spent in the company of those with dementia. It is a growing issue, that has long term funding implications. It is also personal as there are genetic links.

[Curly]

Look, - this is the OCA thread.

... but given you already annoyed everybody and while you are here: Euthanasia is a bit like sex. In my view OK with informed consent. Problem is - anybody with dementia is not any longer able to give an informed consent - i.e. now we are talking about legalising murder.

And it is not even about taking dementia patients out of their misery. Maybe you should propose to euthanize the relatives. It is difficult for them, and they do suffer (and I know what I am talking about, my father had dementia as well). However - dementia patients (if well cared for) can be some of the happiest people you can imagine.

I met a number of people with dementia (and obviously accompanied my father these last five years). None of them (when well cared for) was unhappy, and my dad enjoyed these last five years of his life very much. Nice place to live, nice care staff, no need to worry about money, family or anything else. Just enjoying the care, the company - and not even annoyed when we told him three times a day the same story, because he didn't remember.

I find the proposal to euthanise dementia patients uninformed and disgusting - and clearly not in the best interest of the patients. It is plain murder.

But maybe we should move back to OCA, shouldn't we?

I agree with you Pete, especially your penultimate paragragh

[blackie]

My last comment before we get back to more specific OCA discussion.

I am a supporter of Assisted Dying as it currently stands, but as much as I hate the realities of dementia that I see in my job, and in my mother, I am not sure that assisted dying for dementia is something I would support. Lots of reasons for this, which I won't go into here, but am happy to elaborate via PM.

I would never want to see OCA, or any other provider, benefitting from "shorter stays for those who opt out of suffering" or to allow themselves to fall into that line of thinking. We are all shareholders looking for returns, but for me, care comes first. Money/returns second. My number one reason for holding OCA is because I want to be a small part of a business that shares my passion for providing quality care. Of course I want a return too, but not at the expense of people. In that respect, I am the total antithesis of the barking hound. Thank God.

Now, I respectfully think we need to get back to OCA. As I said, happy to discuss further behind the scenes if anyone wishes to.

this diminishes you

[SailorRob]

lucky bets eh , if you can keep doing that for the next 15 - 20 yrs you will be very wealthy indeed. I notice though you didnt mention your losing bets ? ie such as oca

Perhaps that's because I don't make bets, I'm not gambling.

I would not characterise having bought OCA for an average price well South of 90c over the last few weeks and already having had a dividend and seeing the market price a few cents lower than my average as a 'losing bet' particularly when I hope to hold for the next decade.

I would far prefer the price to go to 10c than $1 for obvious reasons as long as it wasn't accompanied by a dramatic change in the intrinsic value of the business.

There is no chance I will be able to continue to compound at the rate I have over the last few years and I've had some luck with encountering this bear market where a lot of things I'm buying are marked down far more than the market, as well as Covid opportunity in Energy.

I'm not sure there's much luck involved in spending thousands of hours reading annual reports and analysing 15 plus years of financial statements of many different companies, reading hundreds of investor letters and following the movement of the super investors very closely. Hundreds of hours alone have gone into Occidental.

Forward returns are looking better than ever from here, the whole portfolio trades around 8 x earnings and thus should do something like 13 -15% providing retained earnings are allocated properly and earnings are sustained and grow at a modest rate.

One thing is for certain, it would be much easier and less time consuming for me if I could make money from any chart, anywhere at any time using a 12 screen proprietary trading system. But I can't do that.

[bull....]

Perhaps that's because I don't make bets, I'm not gambling.

I would not characterise having bought OCA for an average price well South of 90c over the last few weeks and already having had a dividend and seeing the market price a few cents lower than my average as a 'losing bet' particularly when I hope to hold for the next decade.

I would far prefer the price to go to 10c than $1 for obvious reasons as long as it wasn't accompanied by a dramatic change in the intrinsic value of the business.

There is no chance I will be able to continue to compound at the rate I have over the last few years and I've had some luck with encountering this bear market where a lot of things I'm buying are marked down far more than the market, as well as Covid opportunity in Energy.

I'm not sure there's much luck involved in spending thousands of hours reading annual reports and analysing 15 plus years of financial statements of many different companies, reading hundreds of investor letters and following the movement of the super investors very closely. Hundreds of hours alone have gone into Occidental.

Forward returns are looking better than ever from here, the whole portfolio trades around 8 x earnings and thus should do something like 13 -15% providing retained earnings are allocated properly and earnings are sustained and grow at a modest rate.

One thing is for certain, it would be much easier and less time consuming for me if I could make money from any chart, anywhere at any time using a 12 screen proprietary trading system. But I can't do that.

still dont really get why you want a share to go to 10c that would mean to my understanding the company had it. i prefer it going to $1 with increasing div's

[Entrep]

"I hope it goes lower so I can buy more" is a phrase often seen on rekt Hotcopper share forums.

[850man]

not often that you get to buy something valued at $1.34 for 80c. Better than buying SUMthing valued at $8.91 for $9.25

[BlackPeter]

not often that you get to buy something valued at $1.34 for 80c. Better than buying SUMthing valued at $8.91 for $9.25

True, though this comment might restart a discussion about the difference of value and price and how meaningful the NTA is as a measure of the value of a company.

Obviously - at the end the only thing which counts is how much somebody else is prepared to pay you for your company (no matter what's in the books) when you need to sell it - and this "something" will depend on the buyers assessment at that time of how much of the book value they can recover when they are selling it, but as well on their assessment of the future earnings capability of the company plus whatever the current vibe is ..

Having said that - I think as well that OCA is currently cheap. However - some companies can be "cheap" for a long time.

Discl: hold OCA;