OCA - Oceania Group - retirement villages

[Sideshow Bob]

I see Oceania one of the major sponsors of the tennis.

That's good stuff, eh.

[BlackPeter]

OK. Sorry. But this is so completely incorrect.

Dig up last year's full year financial statements from the report and read them, especially Note 2.2.

As an added assignment think through the cashflow.

Completely incorrect? So you are saying everything I wrote is wrong?

Look, I do acknowledge that your accounting experience is by whatever number of years you've been on the job longer than mine - i.e. I am sure you can pick issues in my example which I tried to use to explain how one major financial income stream of a retirement village works.

Does not mean that the example is wrong, but sure, I should have said that the DMF is treated by OCA as a lease instead of as a loan, shouldn't I? Does this make my post completely wrong and does it change the story?

If you want to be constructive, than you might think about a better example than the one you said is "completely wrong" (how can an example be wrong, btw ???) and give that to us.

Cheers. ... and sorry, while I sometimes enjoy your games I am currently too busy to play them.

[nztx]

You are conflating two separate things here.

Isn't accounting fun ?

It is . the tax reporting playing field is the same level field with rules that investors & individuals play by

From the company reporting side - take out the fair value and revaluation items and that gives an idea
of actual nuts and bolts (simplistic it may be, but without vaguarities of valuation swings).

For a long time, revaluations etc were taken directly into shareholders funds - not touching P&L
before changes in reporting standards.

Under current standards, there are many ways of viewing the unsold contents of the cookie jar
and how they should be valued / reported

Leases, notional interest and depreciation are yet another area of accounting imagination
sent to confuse, enthuse or confound most

The benefactors of these concocted reporting schemes are likely in main to include that same group who
dreamt them up to try to impose on all, in the first place

[Poolboy]

I see Oceania one of the major sponsors of the tennis.

That's good stuff, eh.

With the company doing so badly, I don't think that's a good idea giving money away.

[justakiwi]

The Company is not doing badly. You need to learn to sort the wheat from the chaff in these discussions, do your own due diligence, and make your own decisions about whether or not you invest in OCA, or any other company. Do not take anything you read here as gospel, and do not base your investing decisions purely on the opinions expressed in these forums. And yes, that includes mine.

With the company doing so badly, I don't think that's a good idea giving money away.

[winner69]

I see Oceania one of the major sponsors of the tennis.

That's good stuff, eh.

Our Liz likes her tennis

[Aaron]

Of course did OCA already receive DMF's for older stock, but for their new stock sold in the last 3 years, they didn't. They only need to stop building new apartments and their loss magically disappears from the books, but wait then for the howling of the critics.

A bit afraid to comment as my understanding is limited. Not sure about OCA but Arvida shows "Revenue In Advance" and "Resident Loans" in the balance sheet. I had assumed this was the proceeds received from the sale of units, split between what gets paid back to the deceased estate and what is kept as deferred mgmt fees. The notes say
Deferred Management Fees
Deferred management fees entitle residents to accommodation and the use of the community facilities within the village. They are recognised over the period of service being the expected period of tenure.

I had assumed they guesstimate the average life/tenancy of the residents and show this as income in the P & L over the expected tenancy with a washup on the departure of the tenant, which could be longer or shorter than estimated.

This means cashflows and income recognition would be very different.

As usual shooting from the hip. I will make an effort to look at this more closely tonight and am happy to be corrected here. I await our lesson from Snow Leopard.

Regarding nztx's comments on accounting trickery Arvida's 2022 accounts have a $44,905MILLION dollar "gain on acquisition of villages"??????

My understanding is that market value is what a willing buyer and seller agree on, but Arvida is saying what they bought is worth $44mill more than what they actually paid and revalued the new villages upwards and booked an additional $44mill profit. Although it is not taxable as this defies normal common sense.

Perhaps it is something to do with what they intend to sell units for.

If you take all the non-cash revaluations out of the P & L (not including the mgmt fee estimate) then they made no profit. Again this is Arvida not OCA. Should be some massive losses in the March 2023 accounts with interest rates rising.

[Snow Leopard]

Completely incorrect? So you are saying everything I wrote is wrong?

Look, I do acknowledge that your accounting experience is by whatever number of years you've been on the job longer than mine - i.e. I am sure you can pick issues in my example which I tried to use to explain how one major financial income stream of a retirement village works.

Does not mean that the example is wrong, but sure, I should have said that the DMF is treated by OCA as a lease instead of as a loan, shouldn't I? Does this make my post completely wrong and does it change the story?

If you want to be constructive, than you might think about a better example than the one you said is "completely wrong" (how can an example be wrong, btw ???) and give that to us.

Cheers. ... and sorry, while I sometimes enjoy your games I am currently too busy to play them.

Seeing has the gloves are coming off...

Yes, complete rubbish.

And f you want to rage in ignorance instead of learn then that is fine by me.

Note 2.2

[Poolboy]

The Company is not doing badly. You need to learn to sort the wheat from the chaff in these discussions, do your own due diligence, and make your own decisions about whether or not you invest in OCA, or any other company. Do not take anything you read here as gospel, and do not base your investing decisions purely on the opinions expressed in these forums. And yes, that includes mine.

Thanks for the 101 on sharemarket trading LOL

The share price is about half what it was a while ago. That's a sign isn't it. Your optimism isn't going to help the smart money's opinion of the company.

[justakiwi]

Well if you don't need a lesson in investing 101, you should know that the share price is not a reliable indicator of the worth or value of a company.

Thanks for the 101 on sharemarket trading LOL

The share price is about half what it was a while ago. That's a sign isn't it. Your optimism isn't going to help the smart money's opinion of the company.