OCA - Oceania Group - retirement villages

[Baa_Baa]

Circumstaces that change your intentions doesn't make you a trader if you bought as a long term hold, many things in life can come along that could influence a long term hold, its all about frequency of sales and yours don't sound that frequent.

I guess we're getting off topic but, until your own circumstance are tested by the IRD (and believe me you don't want that if there's ANY borderline interpretations) you don't and won't know. In my experience they don't care about changing motivations, or frequency of buy/sells, it's easy for them to just say (if necessary in court) ... "look 'investor', basically you bought some shares with the apparent intent to hold, but actually if anything comes up that you need the money for or are worried about capital losses for whatever reason you would sell. See, you sold in those circumstances, you're a trader, pay up your taxes", case closed.

[fish]

OTY to do what you want to, a 'moot' point perhaps. From my time with the IRD, I prefer now to having nothing to do with them, I always use a big five accountant to front my interactions with IRD and provision for any possible downside eventuality. You sign a terms of engagement with your accountant that waives their culpability, regardless of what they advise you. Hopefully their advice is the best you can afford to buy. Your view of your intentions and actions do not necessarily reconcile with the IRD's view. Moreover, you broadcast your circumstance on a public forum, and despite your pseudonym, your identify is discoverable. Might be small beans but a lot of people here post with perhaps some false sense of impunity.

All the best.

Thanks for the correction.
You are right -I should have said a moot point .
If the IRD should demand tax on profit by calling me a trader then they will have to accept loses and brokerage against profit.
For an investor like me I feel I should be allowed to sell without being taxed when the main reason is I have changed my mind and want to invest in something I will enjoy .
Do we not all invest with the intention of selling one day ? Does that make us all traders?

I am curious to know how many people on sharetrader have had disputes with the IRD as to their investor/trader status ?
A further thought-is it best not to post on sharetrader lest that could be used in court as evidence you have the appearance of a trader?

[couta1]

There are many on here that claim not to traders, but are in fact traders of shares. I would agree to a bright line tax on shares

Absolutely, ditch the very grey intention test and bring in a 1 yr brightline test for any share sales unless you can prove undue hardship as a reason for selling earlier,.

[Baa_Baa]

Do we not all invest with the intention of selling when we would rather invest elsewhere so does that make us all traders.?

No, we don't all invest with the intent of selling. Many invest with the intent of growing their capital asset base ad infinitum and receiving a taxable income from it (preferably taxed at the company, i.e. imputed earnings), ergo the bigger the capital base, the bigger the income. If ones intent is to grow capital and receive dividends, but when adverse or other conditions motivate us to sell, to realise or protect capital, then by definition we are traders.

[fish]

No, we don't all invest with the intent of selling. Many invest with the intent of growing their capital asset base ad infinitum and receiving a taxable income from it (preferably taxed at the company, i.e. imputed earnings), ergo the bigger the capital base, the bigger the income. If ones intent is to grow capital and receive dividends, but when adverse or other conditions motivate us to sell, to realise or protect capital, then by definition we are traders.

I should have made myself clearer-I meant selling before we die-eg to buy the best OCA unit should we need .
Should you die holding shares then your estate will sell the shares .
So the shares are eventually traded in someway -making a trading loss or gain

[couta1]

Deleted because site would not allow me to put in word i wanted to.

[fish]

I guess we are all lost if the IRD investigate .
Maybe I should ask my accountant to change my status to a trader and claim all the expenses-office,computer,broadband ,brokerage,and share losses for peace of mind whilst tax rates are low .

[couta1]

I should have made myself clearer-I meant selling before we die-eg to buy the best OCA unit should we need .
Should you die holding shares then your estate will sell the shares .
So the shares are eventually traded in someway -making a trading loss or gain

Winner has the best saying of all when he said everyone who buys shares is a trader, its just the frequency of trading that differs.

[fish]

The more I think about it the better it seems-I would have to attend AGMs ,Hotel and travel and meal expenses.
I would probably make a loss I could put against my professional income.

[couta1]

The more I think about it the better it seems-I would have to attend AGMs ,Hotel and travel and meal expenses.
I would probably make a loss I could put against my professional income.

Haha,conversation between Mr Fish and IRD over two subsequent tax yrs. Year 1 Mr Fish wants to claim a nice loss but IRD says because Mr Fish has a day job he is not really a trader so can't claim the loss. Year 2 Mr Fish makes a nice profit but because he has a day job and couldn't claim a loss the year before he doesn't think he should pay tax but IRD says sorry Mr Fish you are definitely a trader.