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  1. #3091
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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    Remember though at IPO time the sellers (McQuaries) wanted $1.03 until the institutions laughed and beat them down to 0.89. So that discounted the Private Equity rip-off factor. And also of course, as time passes the company becomes more understood so the Private Equity dump becomes less of a factor .
    wrong 79c... imagine if they had listed it close to the top of the range? Roger's bold statements of OCA's outperformance would be totally invalid

  2. #3092
    Gnawing on Bones Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trader_jackson View Post
    wrong 79c... imagine if they had listed it close to the top of the range? Roger's bold statements of OCA's outperformance would be totally invalid
    You're worse than my granddaughter, always saying Granddad, imagine this... and Grandad, imagine that, which is fine for an 8 year old.
    Last edited by Beagle; 10-02-2019 at 09:48 PM.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  3. #3093
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    Quote Originally Posted by trader_jackson View Post
    wrong 79c... imagine if they had listed it close to the top of the range? Roger's bold statements of OCA's outperformance would be totally invalid
    apologies - I should have checked the history .... was going on memory , which isnt that flash obviously.
    but point stands even more that Private Equity stain was fully discounted
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  4. #3094
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    What do you mean by stain.?

  5. #3095
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    What do you mean by stain.?
    stain as in bad history associated with private equity placements eg Dick Smith.
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  6. #3096
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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    stain as in bad history associated with private equity placements eg Dick Smith.
    Probably telling porkies = private equity IPO's. Interesting behind the paywall article in last weeks NBR questioning tax matters pertaining to OCA and the way that PE had tried to claim that the 30% ORA retentions at the end of people's tenure should be tax free. My understanding is this has never been the case in N.Z., the capital gain is tax free but the 30% retention is always subject to tax, (net of refurbishment costs). Macca's approach looks disingenuous and incorrect to me and not based on any tax principle I am aware of. OCA have subsequently got a binding ruling confirming retentions are taxable but go on to say there is considerable doubt regarding same in a note to their accounts ? Are they simply defending the majority owners dubious previous position ? There might be an awkward question for Earl to address at the next annual meeting regarding this...coming from this hound. I still like the company and its business model in case anyone is wondering but this tax thing and increased expenses means I have normalised my stake from an outsized position.
    Last edited by Beagle; 11-02-2019 at 12:59 PM.
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  7. #3097
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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    stain as in bad history associated with private equity placements eg Dick Smith.
    I guess there have been in the past examples for some really good and some really bad companies placed that way. Same with any other placements. Only highlighting the negative examples takes just the view for some outstanding opportunities at the time like e.g. SUM and OCA.
    ----
    "Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)

  8. #3098
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    I'm not a fan of IPO's myself so its easy for me to take a dim view of PE IPO's. I prefer history as evidence of success or likelihood of such at least.

    When I was selling equities I found it weird how so many investors get all worked up over an IPO though as though there is some bargain to be had (and sometimes there is of course) but be careful who you're dealing with. Some clients would say to me "I am only interested in IPO's! " To me that's like buying something completely untested

    say like a Holden (just kidding) .
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  9. #3099
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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    I'm not a fan of IPO's myself so its easy for me to take a dim view of PE IPO's. I prefer history as evidence of success or likelihood of such at least.

    When I was selling equities I found it weird how so many investors get all worked up over an IPO though as though there is some bargain to be had (and sometimes there is of course) but be careful who you're dealing with. Some clients would say to me "I am only interested in IPO's! " To me that's like buying something completely untested

    say like a Holden (just kidding) .
    I share your sentiment re IPO's - and they say Warren Buffet does not like them either. I guess one of the issues is that the seller always knows more about the company they are selling than the buyer.

    On the other hand - how would you propose to list a new company other than by IPO? Might be one of these things which are bad, but better than any other option.

    BTW: While trying to avoid IPO's - I still remember with fondness taking part in the IPO's of our Gentailers. The fear created at that stage by Labour and our Greenies provided outstanding investment opportunities. Ah yes - and the NZK IPO was not too bad either ...
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  10. #3100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    Probably telling porkies = private equity IPO's. Interesting behind the paywall article in last weeks NBR questioning tax matters pertaining to OCA and the way that PE had tried to claim that the 30% ORA retentions at the end of people's tenure should be tax free. My understanding is this has never been the case in N.Z., the capital gain is tax free but the 30% retention is always subject to tax, (net of refurbishment costs). Macca's approach looks disingenuous and incorrect to me and not based on any tax principle I am aware of. OCA have subsequently got a binding ruling confirming retentions are taxable but go on to say there is considerable doubt regarding same in a note to their accounts ? Are they simply defending the majority owners dubious previous position ? There might be an awkward question for Earl to address at the next annual meeting regarding this...coming from this hound. I still like the company and its business model in case anyone is wondering but this tax thing and increased expenses means I have normalised my stake from an outsized position.
    the tax note was in the accounts over a yr ago , you obviously missed it
    bull

  11. #3101
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    Quote Originally Posted by bull.... View Post
    the tax note was in the accounts over a yr ago , you obviously missed it
    FY18 accounts were released on 26 July 2018, less than 7 months ago but as you suggest did include a note to the accounts about this.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  12. #3102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    FY18 accounts were released on 26 July 2018, less than 7 months ago but as you suggest did include a note to the accounts about this.
    .......and did you both fully understand Note 5.1ii
    “Imagination is more important than knowledge.”

  13. #3103
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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    I'm not a fan of IPO's myself so its easy for me to take a dim view of PE IPO's. I prefer history as evidence of success or likelihood of such at least.

    When I was selling equities I found it weird how so many investors get all worked up over an IPO though as though there is some bargain to be had (and sometimes there is of course) but be careful who you're dealing with. Some clients would say to me "I am only interested in IPO's! " To me that's like buying something completely untested

    say like a Holden (just kidding) .
    Probably they were some of your older clients. There was a time, probably before 1987, when stagging most IPO's were licences to print money.


  14. #3104
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    .......and did you both fully understand Note 5.1ii
    Yeap its an absolute breeze mate...I live for this sort of thing and get really excited by it.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  15. #3105
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    SP seems to be holding up ex div. I'll look forward to a bit of cash hitting my account on Monday.

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