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  1. #3551
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by percy View Post
    Yes but the estate has title.
    In retirement village agreement there is no title.
    The village has ownership.
    The estate is therefore powerless.
    ,
    I'd like to know what the interest rate is that the likes of RYM, ARV and OCA pay you after 6 months is as I would suggest that the rate itself would give a good indication of exactly how motivated they are to resell the unit. I don't think the Estate is powerless. Need to have another look at the fine print of my mother's retirement village.
    Probably contains clauses like all reasonable efforts to resell and such like.

    P.S. I had a quick look at my Mum's retirement village terms and conditions and obligations placed on the retirement village to take all reasonable steps to resell in a prompt manner and it looks pretty fair and reasonable to me.

    It would take me ages to type it all out so I won't but I can assure you there are strong legal obligations to act in a fair, responsible, commercially reasonable, professional and timely manner in regard to refurbishment and resale. Also reporting requirements to Estate, obligation to get independent registered valuation after 6 months if unsold and market it at that valuation e.t.c.e.t.c.

    My Mum has been very happy at her retirement village and the environment is supportive and caring and she has enjoyed 10 good years there so far.
    She's 90 this year...hope she makes it to 100 so she can well and truly get her money's worth !
    Last edited by Beagle; 21-04-2019 at 12:50 PM.
    Ecclesiastes 11:2: “Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.
    Ben Graham - In the short run the market is a voting machine but in the long run the market is a weighing machine

  2. #3552
    percy
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    Thank you for your post.
    So the nice words are meaningless.[Sounds as though Jacinda wrote it]..lol/.
    The only "meat" is "obligation to get independant registered valuation after 6 months".
    Something,but not enough.?

    OK.Here is something I have been scared to quote.My lawyer told me not to buy a "right to occupy" in one of a leading company's ChCh village, as they are finding resales in that village are near impossible.".Not OCA,or SUM.And not in our area.
    Last edited by percy; 21-04-2019 at 01:26 PM.

  3. #3553
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by percy View Post
    Thank you for your post.
    So the nice words are meaningless.[Sounds as though Jacinda wrote it]..lol/.
    The only "meat" is "obligation to get independant registered valuation after 6 months".
    Something,but not enough.?

    OK.Here is something I have been scared to quote.My lawyer told me not to buy a "right to occupy" in one of a leading company's ChCh village, as they are finding resales in that village are near impossible.".Not OCA,or SUM.And not in our area.
    Let me take a wild guess, RYM, see post #3456. My commercial head tells me there must be a profoundly good reasons that RYM no longer offer a guaranteed buy-back after 6 months.
    They must have been finding that costs them a LOT of money. I have gone out on a limb here and called their marketing deliberately disingenuous because I believe the public needs to know that.

    My Mum's agreement with XYZ village is in accordance with the Retirement villages Code of practice in force in 2008.
    Contains among other things:-
    Provisions relating to promptly refurbishing the unit in a timely way,
    Taking proper steps to market the unit
    Respond to all enquiries about the unit in a timely and helpful way,
    Take all reasonable steps to enter into a new occupation right agreement for the unit in a timely manner
    They must consult with the former resident or their Estate about the marketing of the unit,
    Advise when the unit goes onto the market,
    The general nature of the marketing plan for the unit,
    Duty to keep former resident or Estate informed on progress on a monthly basis about progress with marketing,
    Six monthly valuation by registered valuer required if not sold within that timeframe at Company's expense and must be marketed at valuation,
    Former resident or Estate has the right to obtain an independent valuation if they object to above valuation at their own expense,
    Company must consider the second valuation in determining an acceptable marketing price,
    There is a formal complaints process

    What do you think about RYM's change of policy regarding 6 months and then advertising that nobody has had to wait more than 6 months. Do you know anyone that has had to wait more than 6 months ?
    Last edited by Beagle; 21-04-2019 at 01:56 PM.
    Ecclesiastes 11:2: “Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.
    Ben Graham - In the short run the market is a voting machine but in the long run the market is a weighing machine

  4. #3554
    percy
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    The more we discuss these issues, the more I am concerned the whole sector are not acting in their clients best interest.
    My business experience tells me you are asking for trouble if you do not.
    "Give the customer what they want, and you will get what you want" always worked just fine for me.

  5. #3555
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    My Mum's village changed to fixed fees for life a couple of years back in exchange for a one-off fee increase of about 5% which seemed very reasonable to me.
    She pays $632 per month ~ $146 per week for a lovely large 110 sq meter 2 bedroom unit north facing with views and a very nice sunroom which is so well situated to the sun it often gets up to 30 degree's in winter ! The $146 includes, rates, insurance, gardens, maintenance, panic buttons in various rooms with on call nurse, organised trips, bowling green, swimming pool and spa and so on and so on.
    She gets a lovely glossy full colour weekly village newsletter about all the activities planned for the coming week in the village including all the various clubs that are meeting as well as weekly organised trips and visiting guests and news about any special meal occasions in the onsite restaurant.
    She is fortunate at nearly 90 she can still drive but when she eventually can't there at 2 or 3 weekly shopping trips in the village van she can take advantage of.
    People come and fix things promptly at her unit the odd time something goes wrong, much faster than I can get a tradesman to visit my house lol
    Perhaps most importantly of all their is a very good kind vibe to the village and a real sense of community and caring and she has a number of good friends in the village and made a number of new ones since moving in about 10 years ago.
    I think its great for her and she has been very very happy living there for just on 10 years in this well supported and caring environment.
    A lot of negative stuff about retirement villages needs to be balanced with some positiveness I feel.
    Last edited by Beagle; 21-04-2019 at 03:04 PM.
    Ecclesiastes 11:2: “Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.
    Ben Graham - In the short run the market is a voting machine but in the long run the market is a weighing machine

  6. #3556
    …just try’n to manage expectations… Maverick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    A lot of negative stuff about retirement villages needs to be balanced with some positiveness I feel.
    I read the Stuff .co open comments on their retirement articles quite thoroughly to get a feel for how the villages are experienced and viewed from the public. There are always only two main camps....

    Group one- It seems almost all residence who experience the villages love the villages along with their families.
    Group two- There are are lots of publicwho view the operators as money gouging bastards who are ripping off our oldies.

    As a donkey deep shareholder I am proud to be offering the "group one" families the lifestyles they are happily experiencing, while expecting a good return for my capital. (PS I'm currently underwater on both SUM and OCA but with absolutely no concerns)

    As far as the "group two" crowd, .... if they really think the villages are the money printing machines they claim ( you can also put in here , "power companies", "air lines" or whatever) they are obviously too stupid to have not worked out they can buy a slice of the action.
    Last edited by Maverick; 22-04-2019 at 08:36 AM.

  7. #3557
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    I read the Stuff .co open comments on their retirement articles quite thoroughly to get a feel for how the villages are experienced and viewed from the public. There are always only two main camps....

    Group one- It seems almost all residence who experience the villages love the villages along with their families.
    Group two- There are are lots of publicwho view the operators as money gouging bastards who are ripping off our oldies.

    As a donkey deep shareholder I am proud to be offering the "group one" families the lifestyles they are happily experiencing, while expecting a good return for my capital. (PS I'm currently underwater on both SUM and OCA but with absolutely no concerns)

    As far as the "group two" crowd, .... if they really think the villages are the money printing machines they claim ( you can also put in here , "power companies", "air lines" or whatever) they are obviously too stupid to have not worked out they can buy a slice of the action.
    I agree with your summary.

    We do need to house the elderly as well as possible bottom line and I am happy I feel they are being catered for in the villages I invest.

    I have met plenty from Summerset, Oceania and Ryman who understand why retirement villages charge what they do and how much they enjoy being there. They also mentioned how they were apposed to being alone at home and at the village they have an extended family and many friends, as many of their own families are too busy working in other parts of the country or the world.

    I have also met plenty of individuals (Kids of parents in retirement villages) who felt scorned at how much it cost their parents to stay at a village. Things mentioned were they make a fortune off my parents and that all my inheritance is heading into the retirement villages pockets. They ask why do retirement villages need to cost so much?? I try to explain that the retirement village makes very little if anything from their care, but they still think its a rip off. You can't change their minds

  8. #3558
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    Get their kids to look after their parent in their house. Change their nappies...cook for them..talk to them...and etc. The kids only want the inheritance...but don't want any hard works to look after their parents. Therefore....the kids should stop complaining about the fees...we are lucky as society that aged care provider like ARV..OCA...Bupa and other aged care provider look after the oldies..otherwise....it will be a disaster

  9. #3559
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ggcc View Post
    I agree with your summary.

    I have met plenty from Summerset, Oceania and Ryman who understand why retirement villages charge what they do and how much they enjoy being there. They also mentioned how they were apposed to being alone at home and at the village they have an extended family and many friends, as many of their own families are too busy working in other parts of the country or the world.

    I have also met plenty of individuals (Kids of parents in retirement villages) who felt scorned at how much it cost their parents to stay at a village. Things mentioned were they make a fortune off my parents and that all my inheritance is heading into the retirement villages pockets. They ask why do retirement villages need to cost so much?? I try to explain that the retirement village makes very little if anything from their care, but they still think its a rip off. You can't change their minds
    I have seen the ugliness of this latter camp within my own extended family. My sister in law thinks it outrageous that my parents decided to go into a retirement village a decade ago and that they have lost 30% of "their" money with the retention and at least the last decade of capital gains. Who does the money really belong too for goodness sake ? Who's welfare and happiness is of paramount concern ? Honestly my parents happiness and needs are factors that have never seemed to even enter into her thought processes....it beggars belief that people could be like this.

    Never mind that Dad had dementia and Mum needed support to get through that and we knew Dad only had a few years to live a decade ago and Mum would be on her own all alone in a suburban neighbourhood. How is it my sister in law's money to choose what happens and where has she been in terms of supporting them ?

    She knows better than to bring this subject up these days as I didn't hold back last time she did.

    She very rarely visits now that my Mum isn't really up to cooking and laying on a good hearty meal for her guests, no surprises there ! My sister in law is just a selfish *****
    Last edited by Beagle; 22-04-2019 at 11:04 AM.
    Ecclesiastes 11:2: “Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.
    Ben Graham - In the short run the market is a voting machine but in the long run the market is a weighing machine

  10. #3560
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    Oh, dear!

    I suggest that we move on from the emotive side of retirement villages.

    Disc: Holding shares in most of them and getting on - in age.


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