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11-02-2019, 11:03 AM
#3091
Originally Posted by trader_jackson
wrong 79c... imagine if they had listed it close to the top of the range? Roger's bold statements of OCA's outperformance would be totally invalid
apologies - I should have checked the history .... was going on memory , which isnt that flash obviously.
but point stands even more that Private Equity stain was fully discounted
For clarity, nothing I say is advice....
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11-02-2019, 11:46 AM
#3092
What do you mean by stain.?
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11-02-2019, 12:41 PM
#3093
Originally Posted by Joshuatree
What do you mean by stain.?
stain as in bad history associated with private equity placements eg Dick Smith.
For clarity, nothing I say is advice....
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11-02-2019, 12:57 PM
#3094
Originally Posted by peat
stain as in bad history associated with private equity placements eg Dick Smith.
Probably telling porkies = private equity IPO's. Interesting behind the paywall article in last weeks NBR questioning tax matters pertaining to OCA and the way that PE had tried to claim that the 30% ORA retentions at the end of people's tenure should be tax free. My understanding is this has never been the case in N.Z., the capital gain is tax free but the 30% retention is always subject to tax, (net of refurbishment costs). Macca's approach looks disingenuous and incorrect to me and not based on any tax principle I am aware of. OCA have subsequently got a binding ruling confirming retentions are taxable but go on to say there is considerable doubt regarding same in a note to their accounts ? Are they simply defending the majority owners dubious previous position ? There might be an awkward question for Earl to address at the next annual meeting regarding this...coming from this hound. I still like the company and its business model in case anyone is wondering but this tax thing and increased expenses means I have normalised my stake from an outsized position.
Last edited by Beagle; 11-02-2019 at 12:59 PM.
Ecclesiastes 11:2: Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.
Ben Graham - In the short run the market is a voting machine but in the long run the market is a weighing machine
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11-02-2019, 01:00 PM
#3095
Originally Posted by peat
stain as in bad history associated with private equity placements eg Dick Smith.
I guess there have been in the past examples for some really good and some really bad companies placed that way. Same with any other placements. Only highlighting the negative examples takes just the view for some outstanding opportunities at the time like e.g. SUM and OCA.
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"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)
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11-02-2019, 01:10 PM
#3096
I'm not a fan of IPO's myself so its easy for me to take a dim view of PE IPO's. I prefer history as evidence of success or likelihood of such at least.
When I was selling equities I found it weird how so many investors get all worked up over an IPO though as though there is some bargain to be had (and sometimes there is of course) but be careful who you're dealing with. Some clients would say to me "I am only interested in IPO's! " To me that's like buying something completely untested
say like a Holden (just kidding) .
For clarity, nothing I say is advice....
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11-02-2019, 01:20 PM
#3097
Originally Posted by peat
I'm not a fan of IPO's myself so its easy for me to take a dim view of PE IPO's. I prefer history as evidence of success or likelihood of such at least.
When I was selling equities I found it weird how so many investors get all worked up over an IPO though as though there is some bargain to be had (and sometimes there is of course) but be careful who you're dealing with. Some clients would say to me "I am only interested in IPO's! " To me that's like buying something completely untested
say like a Holden (just kidding) .
I share your sentiment re IPO's - and they say Warren Buffet does not like them either. I guess one of the issues is that the seller always knows more about the company they are selling than the buyer.
On the other hand - how would you propose to list a new company other than by IPO? Might be one of these things which are bad, but better than any other option.
BTW: While trying to avoid IPO's - I still remember with fondness taking part in the IPO's of our Gentailers. The fear created at that stage by Labour and our Greenies provided outstanding investment opportunities. Ah yes - and the NZK IPO was not too bad either ...
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"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)
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11-02-2019, 01:55 PM
#3098
Originally Posted by Beagle
Probably telling porkies = private equity IPO's. Interesting behind the paywall article in last weeks NBR questioning tax matters pertaining to OCA and the way that PE had tried to claim that the 30% ORA retentions at the end of people's tenure should be tax free. My understanding is this has never been the case in N.Z., the capital gain is tax free but the 30% retention is always subject to tax, (net of refurbishment costs). Macca's approach looks disingenuous and incorrect to me and not based on any tax principle I am aware of. OCA have subsequently got a binding ruling confirming retentions are taxable but go on to say there is considerable doubt regarding same in a note to their accounts ? Are they simply defending the majority owners dubious previous position ? There might be an awkward question for Earl to address at the next annual meeting regarding this...coming from this hound. I still like the company and its business model in case anyone is wondering but this tax thing and increased expenses means I have normalised my stake from an outsized position.
the tax note was in the accounts over a yr ago , you obviously missed it
one step ahead of the herd
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11-02-2019, 04:22 PM
#3099
Originally Posted by bull....
the tax note was in the accounts over a yr ago , you obviously missed it
FY18 accounts were released on 26 July 2018, less than 7 months ago but as you suggest did include a note to the accounts about this.
Ecclesiastes 11:2: Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.
Ben Graham - In the short run the market is a voting machine but in the long run the market is a weighing machine
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11-02-2019, 04:32 PM
#3100
Originally Posted by Beagle
FY18 accounts were released on 26 July 2018, less than 7 months ago but as you suggest did include a note to the accounts about this.
.......and did you both fully understand Note 5.1ii
When investors are euphoric, they are incapable of recognising euphoria itself
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