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  1. #2731
    percy
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    Consumer staples is a section of the sharemarket which is known as such,and has its own index..
    No amount of discussion is going to alter that.
    It is a fact.
    Last edited by percy; 16-01-2019 at 12:03 PM.

  2. #2732
    Guru peat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by percy View Post

    The S & P NZ Consumer Staple Index includes the following 17 NZ companies.I have included their weighting.[as of today]
    ATM...73.15%
    SML...6.19%
    SCL...4.47%
    FSF...4.22%
    SAN...3.80%
    DGL....2.61%
    PGW....1.55%
    CVT.....1.43%
    NZK.....1.09%
    GXH.....0.49%
    FWL......0.38%
    TGG......0.17%
    MOA.....0.13%
    ALF......0.06%
    SEA......0.06%
    PIL........0.01%.
    What we learn is two fold.
    a} what a consumer staple is,as it is referred to on sharemarkets..
    b} A2 milk makes up 73.15 % of the index.
    Weird that not only honey CVT salmon NZK and beer MOA and wine DGL are considered consumer staples but that PIL is included as well = it makes a supplement for joint pain!!
    So I have trouble agreeing with their choices on this index to be honest and wouldnt include A2 milk as a staple. though normal milk (FSF) would be.
    Retirement living not really a consumption thing as a whole, though I guess elderly care services may be for old people who of course are making up increasing percentages of the population.
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  3. #2733
    percy
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    I was surprised RBD was not included.
    Offcourse overseas they include the likes of supermarkets,breakfast food manufacturers,Coca-cola,Procter & Gamble,Colgate-Palmolive etc.

  4. #2734
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by percy View Post
    Consumer staples is a section of the sharemarket which is known as such,and has its own index..
    No amount of discussion is going to alter that.
    It is a fact.
    Doesnt make it a good or useful index. Seems to me just a bunch of loosely related companies stitched to sell in an enticing package to those who cant be bothered.


    I was surprised RBD was not included.
    I would have thought that one would have the heaviest weighting.
    Last edited by minimoke; 16-01-2019 at 12:20 PM.

  5. #2735
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    Petrol might be missing but booze isn’t ...a real consumable staple
    lol believe it or not you can live without booze.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  6. #2736
    percy
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    [QUOTE=minimoke;744068]Doesnt make it a good or useful index.
    Agreed,but posters now know what 17 companies make up S&P's NZ Consumer Staples index,and can correctly be called a consumer staple.
    Last edited by percy; 16-01-2019 at 12:27 PM.

  7. #2737
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    lol believe it or not you can live without booze.
    LOL - where do you come up with such fanciful notions?

  8. #2738
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Lets stop the silly nit picking of whether something meets the classic definition of a consumer staple for goodness sake...I have a view, Percy has a different view, various links I could provide support my view but lets move on because the whole point of this discussion on the OCA thread is for people to think about what is a consumer (I will take the word staple out of it) essential, product or service is to think about which companies are going to do well in good times and bad because what product they sell or what service they provide is perceived by the purchaser or user to be an "essential" item.

    For 99% of motorists fuel is an essential item...there is no debate about this, the EV stat's speak for themselves. Fuel volumes declined just 2% last time the price of fuel went truly ballistic late last decade so this tells you all you need to know about how essential this consumer product is. Whether it meets some arbitrary dictionary definition of a consumer staple, to be honest I feel this is totally irrelevant.

    Why did I raise this issue on this thread ? I maintain that quality late stage care is an "essential service" for those that can afford it but it probably isn't because there's lower standards of care the state will provide. In any event I think there's a vast tsunami of baby boomers who will want to have quality late stage care and I think OCA are well positioned to provide it to them.

    LOL Minimoke...after this debate with Percy I definitely need a drink lol
    Last edited by Beagle; 16-01-2019 at 12:41 PM.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  9. #2739
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post

    Why did I raise this issue on this thread ? I maintain that quality late stage care is an "essential service" for those that can afford it but it probably isn't because there's lower standards of care the state will provide
    Surely an "essential" is available to all, regardless of wealth. Otherwise its a "luxury"

  10. #2740
    percy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    Lets stop the silly nit picking of whether something meets the classic definition of a consumer staple for goodness sake...I have a view, Percy has a different view, various links I could provide support my view but lets move on because the whole point of this discussion on the OCA thread is for people to think about what is a consumer (I will take the word staple out of it) essential, product or service is to think about which companies are going to do well in good times and bad because what product they sell or what service they provide is perceived by the purchaser or user to be an "essential" item.
    For 99% of motorists fuel is an essential item...there is no debate about this, the EV stat's speak for themselves. Fuel volumes declined just 2% last time fuel went truly ballistic late last decade so this tells you all you need to know about how essential this consumer product is. Whether it meets some arbitrary dictionary definition of a consumer staple, to be honest I feel this is totally irrelevant.

    Why did I raise this issue on this thread ? I maintain that quality late stage care is an "essential service" for those that can afford it but it probably isn't because there's lower standards of care the state will provide. In any event I think there's a vast tsunami of baby boomers who will want to have quality late stage care and I think OCA are well positioned to provide it to them.

    LOL Minimoke...after this debate with Percy I definitely need a drink lol
    It is not a debate between us.
    It is a debate between you and S&P, and the likes of Vanguard,as to what is definded as a Consumer Staple.

  11. #2741
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Surely an "essential" is available to all, regardless of wealth. Otherwise its a "luxury"
    The average national price of a care suite at OCA according to last year's annual report was just $227K. I read today the average national house price has hit $680K.

    Its this huge margin of comfort that makes me think OCA care suites will keep selling in good times and bad whereas for example if the Auckland medium house price drops from $900K to $750K will people still be buying SUM and RYM Auckland units for $800K ?
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  12. #2742
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    The average national price of a care suite at OCA according to last year's annual report was just $227K. I read today the average national house price has hit $680K.
    That may be. But your average OCA Care Suite will be bought free of debt. Your average national house will be loaded with debt.

    So to buy a suite (or any retirement villa type option) a person needs to pretty much clear of debt by the time the option is being looked at. That is an option that will only apply to the top X% of NZ's population.

    The trouble with falling property values is that it releases, on sale, less capital to the owner - which tightens their options for their next buy. Then a care suite becomes an unaffordable luxury.

    There remains an ongoing beacon of hope - and that is government (regardless of side) wants people out of the primary health system. We ought to see incentivisation into care suites - with the added benefit of freeing up residential housing stock.

  13. #2743
    Trying to get outta here
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    lol believe it or not you can live without booze.
    Cholesterol is an alcohol and although too much of it is bad it is essential for survival and two thirds of your bodies total cant be influenced by diet or exercise.

  14. #2744
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    That may be. But your average OCA Care Suite will be bought free of debt. Your average national house will be loaded with debt.

    So to buy a suite (or any retirement villa type option) a person needs to pretty much clear of debt by the time the option is being looked at. That is an option that will only apply to the top X% of NZ's population.

    The trouble with falling property values is that it releases, on sale, less capital to the owner - which tightens their options for their next buy. Then a care suite becomes an unaffordable luxury.

    There remains an ongoing beacon of hope - and that is government (regardless of side) wants people out of the primary health system. We ought to see incentivisation into care suites - with the added benefit of freeing up residential housing stock.
    Given the average age of entry to a care suite is mid 80's I would have thought most people would be debt free by then ? Surely we're not all going to use up the equity in our homes with reverse equity mortgages because our kids are ratbags and don't deserve anything ? or are we lol
    Last edited by Beagle; 16-01-2019 at 01:16 PM.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  15. #2745
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    Beagle needs to empty his PM ...that’s discretionery
    “In a roaring bull market, knowledge is superfluous and experience is a handicap.”

    –Benjamin Graham”

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