sharetrader
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 62
  1. #1
    Legend
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    CNI area NZ
    Posts
    6,160

    Default Is National using Crosby-Textor in this campaign?

    The title of this thread is a very important question - one which journalists have been too scared to ask of John Key.

    Why is it so important? Because Crosby-Textor are neo-liberal campaign strategists based in Australia, and their pervasive techniques have been well described in Nicky Hager's earlier work, "The Hollow Men".

    Helpfully, Mr. Hager's book contains an index, so pages 157-167 contain the techniques from the 2004 period, when National certainly used them heavily. These ideas have not changed much by the look of it.

    I think it's likely that the two-pronged strategy of promoting National as an easy-going government not going too far into gutter politics, while passing some of the damaging internal information of government onto right-wing bloggers, came from Crosby-Textor. Just the idea (originally from the USA), and then some people in the top National circle had to implement it. Looks like they did this with a passion.

    Meanwhile, the core work that Crosby-Textor would have given John Key's team, would be to take those nagging doubts that many of us have about, say, Labour and the Greens, amplify them so they are almost ridiculous, and then repeat them on every occasion until they become "real".

    By belittling and challenging every step the opposition took using the social and press media, the National Govt have been able to implement some neo-liberal agendas like selling off state assets, borrowing heavily on behalf of the state, while ensuring high-wealth individuals do better than average, and that inequality tends to increase. They have reinforced themselves with positive messages, but all the while the Statistics office and Treasury have recorded (but not generally exposed) some damaging-looking metrics.

    This has worked for National, up until now.

    It must have worked, because many people think that Labour put us in a hole (very untrue), that National has achieved greatness in pulling us out of the GFC so quickly (untrue), that we are now a rock-star economy (untrue).

    The "Dirty Politics" book was a rushed affair, not as many pages. I'm sure Nicky Hager would have liked to add more background research into it. But I think that in the interests of democracy, he needed to get the book out before the election.

    It details some of the scurrilous activities of top National identities and bloggers. So far john key has emerged relatively unscathed. But since Crosby-Textor have made frequent visits to NZ in the past, and their advice is generally given verbally, there's a good chance that John Key would have been privy to these discussions. They could well have been called on in the aftermath of the "Dirty Politics" book, for advice.

    I want some member of the press to stand up for the rest of us, and ask the simple question.

    Have the National Party used Crosby-Textor in this election campaign?

  2. #2
    Update Ready To Install
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Floating Anchor Shoals
    Posts
    9,067

    Default

    Great thread elzorro; . Chances are this will be picked up anyway or you could flick it thru to John Campbell for example he wouldn't hold it back. Looks like Mr Smarmyte (Key)is digging a deeper hole for himself as well.

  3. #3
    Guru
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    3,043

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by elZorro View Post
    The "Dirty Politics" book was a rushed affair, not as many pages. I'm sure Nicky Hager would have liked to add more background research into it. But I think that in the interests of democracy, he needed to get the book out before the election.
    in the interest of democracy or the interest of selling as many copies as possible?

    It would have been a much better book if researched properly but instead it appears to rely solely on the emails with no external research. Whale Oils ability to be crass and repugnant is only matched by his ability to talk absolute sh!t.

  4. #4
    Advanced Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    , , napier. n.z..
    Posts
    1,659

    Default

    The bottom line is that the public are turned off by the crap that is going on and hacking into emails will always be a turn off. I mix with a lot of people, mostly middle or older age and they have little or no interest in what is going on between Hager , Whaleoil and Dotcom - it is the sort of rubbish that accompanies elections exacerbated by the inclusion of fat European criminals who think they have enough money to buy the world. If you really want to know about Labours promise to extend free health to young and old, Read a book "Honour a Physician" if you can find a copy. I can't remember the Author but it was many years ago and relates to the introduction of National Health in the UK. Free medicine is the hypochondriacs dream and unfortunately there are many elderly hypochondriacs - I know several - their main topic of conversation is their bodily functioning.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Wellington, , New Zealand.
    Posts
    1,359

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by craic View Post
    ..... Free medicine is the hypochondriacs dream and unfortunately there are many elderly hypochondriacs - I know several - their main topic of conversation is their bodily functioning.
    I know some too, very sad lives. Some are basically lonely, looking for someone - anyone - to talk to. And before anyone weighs in with - where is the family etc -just because people are old does not mean they are nice or treated their family well.

    Agree that when the policy was announced my first thought was 'floodgates'. There are already parts of the country which have too few doctors. Many but not all areas with shortages are rural. Couple
    of years ago there as a lot of media overage about people in the urban areas of Kapiti and Hutt Valley unable to find a remotely local GP as practices were full up. BTW, Kapiti has a large older population. Just sayin'.

  6. #6
    The Good Banksie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Banks Peninsula
    Posts
    596

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by craic View Post
    The bottom line is that the public are turned off by the crap that is going on and hacking into emails will always be a turn off. I mix with a lot of people, mostly middle or older age and they have little or no interest in what is going on between Hager , Whaleoil and Dotcom - it is the sort of rubbish that accompanies elections exacerbated by the inclusion of fat European criminals who think they have enough money to buy the world.
    My unscientific, quick pub survey got similar results. The older voters haven't really been following the story and don't care, the "thinking" left are all over it and the few people I know that actively don't vote cited it as just "one more reason not to vote".

    (Sorry my pub doesn't carry many/any Nat supporters, so I couldn't canvas them

  7. #7
    Advanced Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    , , napier. n.z..
    Posts
    1,659

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by artemis View Post
    I know some too, very sad lives. Some are basically lonely, looking for someone - anyone - to talk to. And before anyone weighs in with - where is the family etc -just because people are old does not mean they are nice or treated their family well.

    Agree that when the policy was announced my first thought was 'floodgates'. There are already parts of the country which have too few doctors. Many but not all areas with shortages are rural. Couple
    of years ago there as a lot of media overage about people in the urban areas of Kapiti and Hutt Valley unable to find a remotely local GP as practices were full up. BTW, Kapiti has a large older population. Just sayin'.
    I was coming from the same angle about the elderly and the lonely. I had a lot of dealing with the elderly, mostly females ,who had a desperate need to talk to someone. One elderly lady waited at her gate each evening to chat to the paperboy. Several phoned a probation officer on a daily basis just to chat about anything end everything. It may be necessary to have a triage? system like my current doctors practice where people who come in off the street are interviewed by a nurse in the first instance. Years ago, many would shoplift small items, quite unconciously, to gain attention, hence my involvement but that process died with police diversion years ago. Money spent on the social health of the elderly would be much better than on free doctors visits. The lucky ones are the ones that become involved with groups like the RSA and other clubs.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    572

    Default

    Who talks politics in the pub anyway.

  9. #9
    Ignorant. Just ignorant.
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Grudgingly back home
    Posts
    974

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by craic View Post
    . . . criminals who think they have enough money to buy the world.. . .
    Oh, you mean the banks?

    We will pay $x billion with no admission of culpability, and you will not proceed with the charges against us.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    908

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by craic View Post
    I was coming from the same angle about the elderly and the lonely. I had a lot of dealing with the elderly, mostly females ,who had a desperate need to talk to someone. One elderly lady waited at her gate each evening to chat to the paperboy. Several phoned a probation officer on a daily basis just to chat about anything end everything. It may be necessary to have a triage? system like my current doctors practice where people who come in off the street are interviewed by a nurse in the first instance. Years ago, many would shoplift small items, quite unconciously, to gain attention, hence my involvement but that process died with police diversion years ago. Money spent on the social health of the elderly would be much better than on free doctors visits. The lucky ones are the ones that become involved with groups like the RSA and other clubs.
    Craic
    I have been delivering meals on wheels for several years, and I am sure for many of the elderly I am probably the only person they have spoken to that day. Its very sad.

  11. #11
    Legend
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    CNI area NZ
    Posts
    6,160

    Default

    Cheer up you guys, watch social media at work on National's ad. These words are also true.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37vxczp5hwY

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Christchurch, , France.
    Posts
    1,366

    Default

    The strange thing is that El Zorro allegedly believes in democracy, we will have the election, National will win and suddenly he won't believe in democracy, he won't accept the result and he will display all the traits of a BAD LOSER.
    Sad.

  13. #13
    The Good Banksie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Banks Peninsula
    Posts
    596

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Major von Tempsky View Post
    The strange thing is that El Zorro allegedly believes in democracy, we will have the election, National will win and suddenly he won't believe in democracy, he won't accept the result and he will display all the traits of a BAD LOSER.
    Sad.
    Has this happened previously with El Zorro? Or is this just an assumption you are make MVT?

  14. #14
    Advanced Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    , , napier. n.z..
    Posts
    1,659

    Default

    Read post number 19 and a couple later on the "If National Wins " thread. You might get your answer there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Banksie View Post
    Has this happened previously with El Zorro? Or is this just an assumption you are make MVT?

  15. #15
    The Good Banksie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Banks Peninsula
    Posts
    596

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by craic View Post
    Read post number 19 and a couple later on the "If National Wins " thread. You might get your answer there.
    Well not exactly a tantrum...but yeah they will be winners and losers, and I hope both the winners and the losers will be mature about it.

    Edit: Reading the early posts I do wish MVT would debate the issues like he used too, rather than just popping in and sniping off a negative post. But I guess he has been round this block before and is feeling a little jaded.
    Last edited by Banksie; 23-08-2014 at 04:02 PM.

  16. #16
    Legend
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    CNI area NZ
    Posts
    6,160

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Banksie View Post
    Well not exactly a tantrum...but yeah they will be winners and losers, and I hope both the winners and the losers will be mature about it.

    Edit: Reading the early posts I do wish MVT would debate the issues like he used too, rather than just popping in and sniping off a negative post. But I guess he has been round this block before and is feeling a little jaded.
    Yes, I'm sure MVT has a lot of experience in politics, from the gist of some of his posts. But I have been able to pull him up on one or two comments in the past. Anyway, a lot of what I said in post #17 came to pass. Manufacturing jobs kept dropping, nothing much of note changed for the positive. National were lucky to see a big dairy cheque while the NZ$ was high.

    I've been out helping canvass, a mix of comments, some greenies out there looking to vote strategically, some Labour, and of course a few National households. And this was in a relatively tidy street.

  17. #17
    Advanced Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    , , napier. n.z..
    Posts
    1,659

    Default

    problem is trying to know what to debate. Both major parties will offer rewards/bribes to electors to support them and only so much will be delivered. All sorts of excuses are offered like "Well, we didn't realise the problem until we opened the books" "we hope to make a start on that in the next term when we sort out this/that problem" There is nothing on the block at present that excite me one way or another. As a pensioner, I certainly don't need any more than I am getting now - as a sometimes customer of the health system I am quite happy with their performance - as a taxpayer, a bit more or less wouldn't bother me. As to the minor parties, they are effectively absorbed into the left or right in due course. I do expect that when the election is over and the dust settles, one large interloper will be removed from the site quickly by whichever side wins, probably with the collusion of the opposition.

  18. #18
    Legend
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    CNI area NZ
    Posts
    6,160

    Default

    Lynton Crosby tried suing Nicky Hager over a radio interview in 2008. Here's what happened, Hager won.

    http://www.nickyhager.info/crosby-v-...itical-weapon/

    What's important to note is that John Key said he wouldn't use the same advisers Brash used. But he did. He was furious that someone leaked this information. Now if you look on google to see if National are using Crosby-Textor in more recent years, there is no official confirmation. That's because an admission of that kind would be embarrassing.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    572

    Default

    Thought you'd be happy if he used them. Look where Brash is now.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    908

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Major von Tempsky View Post
    The strange thing is that El Zorro allegedly believes in democracy, we will have the election, National will win and suddenly he won't believe in democracy, he won't accept the result and he will display all the traits of a BAD LOSER.
    Sad.
    MVT
    Should the left manage to cobble together a government I suspect I know who will be the sore loser, it wont be EZ! Although the Waitemata Trust may want its money back.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •