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  1. #10751
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers View Post
    John Tamihere is fully half Irish as well.

    “Ruby Elaine Tamihere was mother to 12 children; she was completely ostracised by her own Irish Catholic family once she married my Māori father.”
    Rawiri Waititi -

    “Raised by an English Grandmother and very Maori Grandparents, all extremely knowledgeable in their own worlds, I am able to comfortably walk in both Te Ao Maori and the Pakeha world with confidence and ease.”

    Also Rawiri Waititi -

    ‘Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi has called the British Crown “a thief, a murderer and a coward” ahead of King Charles III’s coronation this weekend.
    Waititi made the comments during an online gathering of Indigenous peoples from 12 countries this morning, all calling on King Charles to acknowledge the impacts of colonisation during his coronation.’

  2. #10752
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers View Post
    What a very strange country this is. I wonder how much celebrating of her Irish heritage Debbie Ngarewa-Packer does. Does she turn up in Parliament dressed in the green of the Emerald Isle, guinness in hand? I’m yet to see it.
    She is literally fully one half Irish, her mother was an Irish immigrant. Packers recent links to Europe are stronger than mine as far as I can tell.

    ————

    And what can you tell us about your mum?

    “Well, my dad was Hemi Ngarewa and he met this fiery Irish redhead, Colleen Cleasby, when she was 16. She was the first non-Māori to marry into our whānau. Most of the relationships earlier were pre-arranged. But not this one. Mum married Dad and they lived in Pātea with our Koko. And she eventually became a much better reo speaker than Dad.”
    That means that Debbie is more Irish than Maori. I doubt if her dad was 100% Maori as that was long gone. So really she is in the wrong party.

  3. #10753
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    That means that Debbie is more Irish than Maori. I doubt if her dad was 100% Maori as that was long gone. So really she is in the wrong party.
    Can 'they' explain to me why it would be racist to raise this stuff? She is the person who is literally leading a race-based party!

    The other leader was raised by an English grandmother, and is directly inflammatory and intemperate language at an English King. Does his Maori half hate his English half? Does his Maori half demand reparations from his English half? Such an odd and disingenous situation!

  4. #10754
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    Interesting little factoid on how the conqueror and slave-taker Te Rauparaha got his name -

    'His name is derived from an edible plant called rauparaha. Soon after he was born a Waikato warrior who had killed and eaten a relation of his threatened to eat the child as well, roasted with rauparaha leaves; the child was called Te Rauparaha in defiance of this threat.'

  5. #10755
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    Some information here about the 'horrors of colonisation' -

    'After Te Rauparaha's sister, Waitohi, the mother of Te Rangihaeata, died in 1839 war broke out among the tribes allied to Te Rauparaha. A huge funeral gathering was held. A Rangitāne slave of Te Āti Awa, who had brought tribute from the South Island, was killed and eaten, against Te Āti Awa's wishes. Quarrelling at the feast led to renewed fighting between Te Āti Awa and Ngāti Raukawa, culminating in the battle of Te Kūititanga at Waikanae. Te Rauparaha crossed over from Kāpiti to assist Ngāti Raukawa, but had to escape in a whaling boat when they suffered a severe defeat. After the battle there was no looting of the dead or cannibalism, as Christian influences had been brought to Te Āti Awa by freed slaves returning from the Bay of Islands. Ngāti Raukawa dead were buried with their clothing and arms and ammunition.'
    Last edited by Logen Ninefingers; 19-05-2023 at 05:38 PM.

  6. #10756
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    Labour's uneasy bedfellow Te Pati Maori in troubled waters over Waipareira Trust making loans to John Tamihere to fund political campaigning to the tune of 380k.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaAClAnEzSU

  7. #10757
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonu View Post
    Labour's uneasy bedfellow Te Pati Maori in troubled waters over Waipareira Trust making loans to John Tamihere to fund political campaigning to the tune of 380k.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaAClAnEzSU
    Since the Treaty of Waitangi was between individual Maori tribal groups and 'the British Crown', all state funding to 'honour the treaty' should by rights be routed only via Maori tribal entities.

    Of course, many of the individual Maori tribal leaders never signed the Treaty of Waitangi, even though - to all-intents-and-purposes - modern New Zealand maintains the pretence that they did.

    Saying 'no' Taraia Ngakuti Te Tumuhuia, a Ngāti Tamaterā leader in the Thames area, was one of several rangatira who declined to sign the Treaty. Others included Ngāi Te Rangi leader Tupaea of Tauranga, Te Wherowhero of Waikato-Tainui, and Mananui Te Heuheu of Ngāti Tūwharetoa.

    Again, there has never been a homogenous 'Maori' nation-state in New Zealand. The closest entity is the Kingitanga - a post-colonial construct based on a European model.

    One of New Zealand’s most enduring political institutions, the Kīngitanga (Māori King movement) was founded in 1858 with the aim of uniting Māori under a single sovereign. Waikato is the seat of the Kīngitanga.

    Te Pati Maori can claim to represent all Maori, though Rawiri Waititi got 12,389 votes at the last election - enough to win the seat of Waiariki, Debbie Packer came into Parliament on his coat-tales with Te Pati Maori winning 1.2% of the overall vote, and Meka Whateri is a recent 'waka jumper' from Labour. People with a pitifully small mandate attempting to win outsized influence.

  8. #10758
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    The Disinformation Project being further exposed for what they are: emotive Marxist activists with an "absence of verifiable evidence". Remembering they emerged from the Office of the PM under Ardern.
    Retired judge Harvey who has a background being published in IT and legal issues hangs them out to dry. Not only their self identified motivations but also lack of research rigour.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DkvxEWmd6U

    Looks like the government is looking to hand them another 500k. The Disinformation Project's current funding is presently extremely opaque. Funny that.

  9. #10759
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonu View Post
    The Disinformation Project being further exposed for what they are: emotive Marxist activists with an "absence of verifiable evidence". Remembering they emerged from the Office of the PM under Ardern.
    Retired judge Harvey who has a background being published in IT and legal issues hangs them out to dry. Not only their self identified motivations but also lack of research rigour.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DkvxEWmd6U

    Looks like the government is looking to hand them another 500k. The Disinformation Project's current funding is presently extremely opaque. Funny that.
    'The Disinformation Project' would be an apt name for what has been going on in New Zealand in the modern era. Some aspects of our history are amplified, and others are buried. Why is that? Why must 'decendents of colonists' be constantly atoning for 'colonial wrongs', while people who practiced slavery, infanticide, and cannibalism as part of their societal fabric are never called on it? If I wanted to make a documentary series on the life and crimes of Te Rauparaha, would there be any appetite for it from the people who decide what is shown on our TV screens? What about a 5 part series on 'The Musket Wars', anyone keen?

    Thousands of Māori died in the intertribal Musket Wars of the 1810s, 1820s and 1830s. Many more were enslaved or became refugees. Northern rivals Ngāpuhi and Ngāti Whātua led the way, but all the tribes were soon trading for muskets.

    Muskets (ngutu pārera) changed the face of intertribal warfare, decimating some tribes and drastically altering the rohe (territorial boundaries) of others.

  10. #10760
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    I think most New Zealanders would say that they want to live in a modern democratic country. And constitutionally it looks like we do live in one. But I do not know if this is actually the case now. I guess that 'full and final' Treaty settlements in the past - along with fullsome apologies - aimed to salve what was once referred to as 'the greviance industry', but I am personally unsure if that is the case. It seems that contempory ideas have moved some way past settlements to address past wrongs with a view to establishing New Zealand as a harmonious modern constitutional democracy. Now we have entered a new era where Maori ambition - with some governmental acquiesance - encompasses a view that they truly will govern New Zealand in conjuction with a government that is elected by all the citizens of New Zealand. And indeed, in many areas and in many ways Iwi groups actually do appear to be co-governing New Zealand along with the elected central and local government entities.

    Moreover, we have crossed a line from a view of 'full and final' Treaty settlements to a kind of endless stream of 'reparations' (for want of a better term) for 'the harm wrought on the Maori people by colonisation'. (If you are endlessly referring back to 'colonisation', can you ever truly 'move on'?)

    There are a lot of terms that have fallen out of favour in this new paradigm that we live in. It used to be fashionable to talk about a 'Treaty gravy train' or a 'Treaty industry'. These days the Waitangi Tribunal does its business quietly but perpetually. The Waitangi Tribunal seems to be an entity that has always been with us and will always be with us. Their 'work' seems to now consist of reporting on ways that 'the Crown' is 'failing in its Treaty obligations to Maori'. I think many people would have thought that the Tribunal was set up to negotiate on Treaty settlements, although maybe the ground has shifted and - once again - we are being introduced to a new reality.

    If you listen to Te Pati Maori, then you would form a view that Maori in general have never been poorer or more down-trodden, and this is mainly due to the Crown who shirk their obligations at every turn. For an opposing view, we may consider that there was $1 Billion of funding specifically targeted at Maori in last years budget (as an example). And for another view again, we may consider the following -

    The Māori economy is also diversifying, with new investment areas including geothermal, digital, services, education, tourism and housing. Chapman Tripp's 2017 “Te Ao Māori - Trends and Insights” estimated the value of the Māori asset base at over $50 billion.

    Sometimes what is presented as 'truth' by a particular growth may be a form of lobbying or politiking. But to the forelock tugging and ever so 'umble general populace it seems that whatever is presented as truth in the case of Maori hardship is readily accepted, and the self-flagellation begins again. I don't really know where we are at with 'the process' of making the country into a place where Maori are truly content with their lives as a group. Chris Hipkins says there is still "much work to do"....perhaps he believes we are only at step one of a road that will never end.

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