OCA - Oceania Group - retirement villages

[Daytr]

what exactly are you referring to here, the DMF or the ORA?, i thought the properties are held primarily to generate a DMF income? (is this the "rent" idea you are talking about that could have been earned??), i'm not sure what you then class the ORA as? additionally you appear to be ignoring time frames of occupancy in your comment??, which are in the AR and would have a large bearing on the point you are trying to make wouldn't they?.

The 70% or 30% to OCA is the DMF less refurbishment costs. Time frames are difficult but for villages the average estimate is 7 years.
And no it's not rent it's just the deal when someone signs up front.
The rent is if OCR didn't sell what would the rent be on the unit over 7 years? I can tell you it's a lot higher than the DMF.
Where they can that up is on capital gain if it's available.

[Cupsy]

The 70% or 30% to OCA is the DMF less refurbishment costs.

I have no idea what you are saying here, can you lay it out in a bit more detail?

The rent is if OCR didn't sell what would the rent be on the unit over 7 years? I can tell you it's a lot higher than the DMF.

Can you give us some detail, run some numbers for us on how much higher?

[SailorRob]

It's simply put not a loan

What are all the Residents' loans they go on about in the Summerset IPO document, hundreds of millions worth.

Like us, they are wrong I guess.

[SailorRob]

Your a smart kid with a blind spot. Free loan was mentioned over & over even when I outlined what the exchange actually is which is obvious to anyone with both eyes open. It's simply put not a loan

The Summerset IPO document must be a fraud. And ValueNZ you are blind mate.

Page 82 of the IPO document;


Residents’ loans.


Residents’ loans are non interest bearing and are payable when both a terminating event has occurred (i.e. receipt by the manager of an acknowledgement of termination signed by the resident or the resident’s attorney or the personal representatives of a deceased resident), and there has been a subsequent resale of the licence, and the settlement proceeds from the resale have been received by the Group.

[SailorRob]

• From OCA IPO Document;
  
  
  Property market risk:
  
  Oceania’s retirement village earnings are affected by prevailing national and regional property market conditions which are outside Oceania’s control. Any downturn in the property market could impact Oceania’s ability to sell or re-sell Units, as well as the value that can be achieved on any such sale or resale, which could result in a significant negative impact on Oceania’s earnings.

[ValueNZ]

The Summerset IPO document must be a fraud. And ValueNZ you are blind mate.

Page 82 of the IPO document;


Residents’ loans.


Residents’ loans are non interest bearing and are payable when both a terminating event has occurred (i.e. receipt by the manager of an acknowledgement of termination signed by the resident or the resident’s attorney or the personal representatives of a deceased resident), and there has been a subsequent resale of the licence, and the settlement proceeds from the resale have been received by the Group.

I'm hooked on float lol. I'll spend my whole life scouting out the stuff...

Probably won't ever find anything like retirement village float again though. It beats all other float for the reason that a resale must be made before a refund is given. That's what allows it to grow so large in relation to equity at low risk, as there can't be a run on the float.

[Daytr]

The Summerset IPO document must be a fraud. And ValueNZ you are blind mate.

Page 82 of the IPO document;


Residents’ loans.


Residents’ loans are non interest bearing and are payable when both a terminating event has occurred (i.e. receipt by the manager of an acknowledgement of termination signed by the resident or the resident’s attorney or the personal representatives of a deceased resident), and there has been a subsequent resale of the licence, and the settlement proceeds from the resale have been received by the Group.

As I have said on multiple occasions now, if you treat the money paid by the occupier, you also need to include the loan of the villa from OCA. They aren't mutually exclusive.
The interest on the loan to OCA is canceled out by the rent payable by the occupier.
If you put them together, they are a swap of mutual principle and 'interest / rent' payable.
What don't you get?

[Daytr]

I'm hooked on float lol. I'll spend my whole life scouting out the stuff...

Probably won't ever find anything like retirement village float again though. It beats all other float for the reason that a resale must be made before a refund is given. That's what allows it to grow so large in relation to equity at low risk, as there can't be a run on the float.

That's a good point re the payout is not payable until there is a buyer on the resale & it does derisk the business somewhat.

[SailorRob]

I'm hooked on float lol. I'll spend my whole life scouting out the stuff...

Probably won't ever find anything like retirement village float again though. It beats all other float for the reason that a resale must be made before a refund is given. That's what allows it to grow so large in relation to equity at low risk, as there can't be a run on the float.

Exactly right, insurance float needs larger capital to create more and it can disappear fast and chasing it can lead to disaster.

The more I learn about these businesses the more I salivate.

I read both the OCA and the SUM IPO docs tonight, SUM are much more open about the model, OCA tend to not highlight it so much.

I strongly recommend going back and reading the first few pages through 2011 on the SUM thread and looking through all of Sauces posts, I have not seen higher quality on ST.

Interestingly Winner69 was also there discussing with Sauce back then and appeared to understand it, and must have made an absolute killing on SUM, but now can only harp on about the Warriors and 'hope that the share price recovers by the end of the day' Super odd. You'd think his understanding would have increased massively by now and having seen the model work with SUM...

[Daytr]

I have no idea what you are saying here, can you lay it out in a bit more detail?



Can you give us some detail, run some numbers for us on how much higher?

Just estimate what the rent would be on a villa etc over a 7 year average vs the 30% not payable back by OCA, less what refurb costs OCA need to pay.

This is assuming no capital gain on the resale.