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04-02-2010, 12:12 PM
#451
Hi Minimoke,
Originally Posted by minimoke
"not a good look" - thats kinda generous isn't it? Look back over the past six months and what has that valuation done? Perhaps given investors greater confidence than if they had seen the accounts with correct valuation; given S&P more confidence with its rating; given the Govt with its Deposit Guarantee scheme. It took a while for previous accounts to come out - someone had a lot of time to make sure the accounts were "correct".
Was the market valuation as at 30 Jun 2009 more or less than the historical cost they used in the financials as at that date?
Alan.
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04-02-2010, 12:25 PM
#452
Originally Posted by Alan3285
Hi Minimoke,
Was the market valuation as at 30 Jun 2009 more or less than the historical cost they used in the financials as at that date?
Alan.
Isn't that a question better answered by the ongoing independent revaluation?
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04-02-2010, 12:44 PM
#453
Hi Minimoke,
Originally Posted by minimoke
Isn't that a question better answered by the ongoing independent revaluation?
I don't understand. Aren't you saying that they overstated the figures in the balance sheet as at 30 Jun 2009 and thus 'misled' investors?
Originally Posted by minimoke
... given investors greater confidence than if they had seen the accounts with correct valuation; given S&P more confidence with its rating ...
If it gave investors and S&P 'greater confidence' then it must have been higher than it should have been, so you are saying that they overstated the value as at 30 Jun 2009?
Thanks,
Alan.
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04-02-2010, 01:07 PM
#454
Originally Posted by Alan3285
Hi Minimoke,
Aren't you saying that they overstated the figures in the balance sheet as at 30 Jun 2009 and thus 'misled' investors?
I'm saying that thats perhaps a question best answered by the independant valuation.
I'll also say investors should have confidence in the accounts presented - especially when they took such a long time to finalise; especially when there are applicable accounting standards and when you are run by professionals and you use professionals they ought to know these standards and use them correctly; and especially in turbulent financial times.
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04-02-2010, 04:55 PM
#455
and remember that one (main) reason for the delay in the accounts was that they were subject to 'peer review' ...... that sort of suggests that other experts looked at the accounts as well .... oh goodness gracious
What's an even bigger concern that there is to be further writedowns on impaired assets ... so obviously rose tinted glasses were on when they did the last assessment
NBR reported Maier is seeking funding 'with a degree of urgency' and with lack of clarity whether this funding is coming directly inot SCF or whether Southbury is doing the capital raising only causes more uncertainity
How much new capital does SCF need? that depends on the additional writeoffs .... but talk of $300m or more is going around
At least Maier getting things moving ... the big broom sweeping the floor clean might be painful though
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04-02-2010, 05:51 PM
#456
Originally Posted by minimoke
I'm saying that thats perhaps a question best answered by the independant valuation.
I'll also say investors should have confidence in the accounts presented - especially when they took such a long time to finalise; especially when there are applicable accounting standards and when you are run by professionals and you use professionals they ought to know these standards and use them correctly; and especially in turbulent financial times.
So you're saying that you don't really know, and were just assuming that the accounts overstated the value as at 30 Jun 2009?
Alan.
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04-02-2010, 05:53 PM
#457
Hi Winner69,
Originally Posted by winner69
and remember that one (main) reason for the delay in the accounts was that they were subject to 'peer review' ...... that sort of suggests that other experts looked at the accounts as well .... oh goodness gracious
What's an even bigger concern that there is to be further writedowns on impaired assets ... so obviously rose tinted glasses were on when they did the last assessment
NBR reported Maier is seeking funding 'with a degree of urgency' and with lack of clarity whether this funding is coming directly inot SCF or whether Southbury is doing the capital raising only causes more uncertainity
How much new capital does SCF need? that depends on the additional writeoffs .... but talk of $300m or more is going around
At least Maier getting things moving ... the big broom sweeping the floor clean might be painful though
With respect to your point regarding whether the capital comes in directly to SCF or via Southbury which then subscribes for additional shares:
What would be the difference from the perspective of other investors in SCF (prefs, bonds, depositors etc)?
Does one option give greater security than the other? Which one would be more positive to pricing on the listed investments do you think?
Thanks,
Alan.
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05-02-2010, 09:06 AM
#458
Originally Posted by Alan3285
So you're saying that you don't really know, and were just assuming that the accounts overstated the value as at 30 Jun 2009?
Alan.
When you bring people in to do retrospective independant valuations and it looks like extra provisioning needs to be done it strikes me that SCF doesn't know so what I know,or don't, is irrelevant.
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05-02-2010, 09:24 AM
#459
Originally Posted by minimoke
When you bring people in to do retrospective independant valuations and it looks like extra provisioning needs to be done it strikes me that SCF doesn't know so what I know,or don't, is irrelevant.
right on mate .... cause it sounds like no one knows anyway ... what a mess
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05-02-2010, 09:30 AM
#460
Originally Posted by winner69
right on mate .... cause it sounds like no one knows anyway ... what a mess
Are we surprise that it is in a mess?
A number of us have been putting up warning signs but few wanna listen.
Having got ourselves into a debt-induced economic crisis, the only permanent way out is to reduce the debt – either directly by abolishing large slabs of it, or indirectly by inflating it away.
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