If National wins ...

[elZorro]

All the more reason to vote for the man.. Not the " PARTY "..

If not happy with the candidates put up..

A place on the paper to register one's DISAGREEMENT of them..

As for your three terms of Liabour.. Employment increased due to expansion in Government jobs.. Who pays for these non jobs ??..

The NZ economy could not and should not rely on borrowing as a normal way of life..

The top 1% !!..

Yes there will always be some one above and below..

Let us just concentrate on making them all pay exactly the same percentage of tax..

" You might not like the sound of socialism, I'm not that keen on it either ".

Good to hear/read.. Why do you defend it so much ??

Socialism is a big topic, and in fact Labour is often only a bit left of centre. I quite like the idea of getting ahead some day, but I'd like to see everyone getting ahead at the same time. We shouldn't have to step on other people's toes to get there.

MMP lets everyone vote for a candidate and a party, that can be useful.

Janner, are you saying that every new job that occurred during Labour's terms was only a new government worker? The public sector is actually quite small as a portion of the workforce. There are a few more in public health and education etc, but that's not a bad thing, right? The trend was much bigger than that, and new productive jobs helped out the service sector, it all built up into the lowest unemployment rate for many years, a high tax take, old govt loans being paid off, and if borrowing did increase it was private borrowing.

Now if National was really keen on seeing that everyone paid the same percentage of tax, they'd introduce a capital gains tax, they'd be horrified by access to tax havens and they'd do something about it, they'd discourage big businesses from accepting govt grants and then putting themselves up for sale within a short time. It must be a lot of fun working the system when you get up to that level.

[janner]

Socialism is a big topic, and in fact Labour is often only a bit left of centre. I quite like the idea of getting ahead some day, but I'd like to see everyone getting ahead at the same time. We shouldn't have to step on other people's toes to get there.

MMP lets everyone vote for a candidate and a party, that can be useful.

Janner, are you saying that every new job that occurred during Labour's terms was only a new government worker? The public sector is actually quite small as a portion of the workforce. There are a few more in public health and education etc, but that's not a bad thing, right? The trend was much bigger than that, and new productive jobs helped out the service sector, it all built up into the lowest unemployment rate for many years, a high tax take, old govt loans being paid off, and if borrowing did increase it was private borrowing.

Now if National was really keen on seeing that everyone paid the same percentage of tax, they'd introduce a capital gains tax, they'd be horrified by access to tax havens and they'd do something about it, they'd discourage big businesses from accepting govt grants and then putting themselves up for sale within a short time. It must be a lot of fun working the system when you get up to that level.

FFS man.. How does one answer your dribble..

i.e. Now if National was really keen on seeing that everyone paid the same percentage of tax, they'd introduce a capital gains tax..

That would only be paid by people selling .. On a capital gain of what they are selling ..

You really have no idea what you are talking about..

Discussion closed as far as I am concerned..

[elZorro]

FFS man.. How does one answer your dribble..

i.e. Now if National was really keen on seeing that everyone paid the same percentage of tax, they'd introduce a capital gains tax..

That would only be paid by people selling .. On a capital gain of what they are selling ..

You really have no idea what you are talking about..

Discussion closed as far as I am concerned..

Dribble, or facts? You're onto it, though, a capital gains tax would affect mostly those people who have a lot of capital, as it might be set up to exclude the home you live in. Crucially, it would affect those who make capital gains on infrequent property speculation. Equally it would see the state getting a small cut of large one-off business sales like Trademe.

Let's be clear though. In Trademe's case (at the time of sale to Fairfax), that business was quickly coming into profit, and would soon have to be paying a lot of tax to the govt. They pumped it up, Fairfax bought it, no-one paid tax on the windfall gain, and Fairfax probably had losses that swamped out any income from Trademe (it's overseas owned anyway).

That's how the system can be rorted, and it's not illegal. It might be immoral though.

If a capital gains tax was in place, maybe we'd still have many of these good startups trading under local ownership.

[iceman]

"I quite like the idea of getting ahead some day, but I'd like to see everyone getting ahead at the same time. We shouldn't have to step on other people's toes to get there."

EZ what on earth do you mean by this comment ? How is EVERYONE going to get ahead at the same time ? Do you not see how unrealistic this comment of yours is ?

"Now if National was really keen on seeing that everyone paid the same percentage of tax, they'd introduce a capital gains tax,"
As Janner points out, CGT is not a sole solution. National has indeed moved to even tax rates by lowering all income tax rates and increasing the GST rate, which everyone pays.

Your earlier comments about things humming along very nicely under 3 terms of Labour compared to the one and a bit terms of current National are just plain silly without some comparison and acknowledgment of what is happening in the World around us. As much as you may not like it, we are still part of the World economy and are affected by events offshore that our Governments have no say in.

I think there is little doubt that we would be in a much better position today had Clark & Cullen not wasted so much on the silly and very expensive policies that have already been canvassed on this thread, during the boom years in NZ and around the World.
But no doubt all will be saved by Labour introducing a CGT and building 100,000 houses that will cost "only" $300,000, or was it $500,000. Their last lot of social housing building was so successful, most of them the wrong size in the wrong areas.
The price of this latest project depends on which time one listens to your Dear Leader, who as you know, has struggled somewhat to give us a reliable number and detail on this policy. No doubt his Finance Minister in waiting, Russel Norman, will be working it all out for him !!

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Janner you say vote for the person not the party. Give us a sample of how you came to the decision as to who you voted for in your electorate. As for my electorate I ruled the biggest idiot (IMHO) out first & proceeded through the list until only the lessor Idiot (IMHO) was left. The party vote went to a party not standing a candidate. So could not judge there candidate. But the party policies were the best of a bad bunch.

[elZorro]

I don't think Janner votes, so PTC, your question is not going to hit a home run..


Iceman, I am sort of repeating the mantra of Labour, that we can all prosper if we bring everyone with us. (A bit like the sharemarket then). NZers can gather a bigger piece of the world's trade if we smarten up our act. We'll have to add value, hit the niche areas, and if we can do that with manufacturing and primary industries, we have plenty of people who would like a sensible-paying job in those areas.

Particularly in manufacturing, sited close to all the new state-built properties - which you declined to point out, won't be staying on the govt books like the first lot.

Everyone pays GST huh? Yes they do, sort of. Did Sam Morgan pay 15% GST on the Trademe sale? No. Once that money was banked or reinvested, he only needs to pay GST on the relatively small amount of end-user goods he purchases in NZ. Hundreds of millions of one-off income, no tax to pay. You and I, a lot less income each year, will pay around 25-35% on every net dollar we earn.

Sam and many others are repeating this process with other startups. On one hand it's great to have capital being used like this, but a cynic might say that it's one of the few areas where you can use that amount of capital, and yet not have to pay any tax on the profits. As long as the companies are sold off, or you sell your shareholding at some point, before taxes on net profit are due.

Maybe Labour did have a lucky break with the world economy in their last term, but they largely used the income to pay off old public debt, and I remember National extolling them to keep borrowing instead, and to pay the surplus back as a tax refund. No-one runs a business operation like that. Even Russell Norman would do better.

[elZorro]

Will no-one point out my flawed logic? I must be wrong somewhere..

Joshua Drummond is a commentator for the Waikato Times. He's getting to be very polished.
Have a look at this.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times...6-o-clock-news

[Major von Tempsky]

A very weak attempt at left wing "satire".
No doubt there's a good job for him in Venezuela, Argentina, Ecuador, Syria, Russia, China....

His school report must have read "Needs to do more preparatory research, think more deeply, read more widely and reread before bursting into print."

Probably a devotee of Anthony Trollope who used to write 3,000 words a day with the result that his muse, if ever there, had long since fled and his prose was very tired, uninspired and threadbare....

(Memo to self: Avoid pieces from Joshua Drummond like the plague unless having difficulty getting off to sleep...).

[elZorro]

Au contraire MVT, I really liked his work. He has been out there 'doing it' in various jobs too, just like the rest of us. For those into comic books, he's not a bad artist either, as you can see on his website.

http://www.cakeburger.com/

Anyway, instead of saying that 'left-wingers' don't know what they're talking about, how about proving it?

[fungus pudding]

I don't think Janner votes, so PTC, your question is not going to hit a home run..


Iceman, I am sort of repeating the mantra of Labour, that we can all prosper if we bring everyone with us. (A bit like the sharemarket then). NZers can gather a bigger piece of the world's trade if we smarten up our act. We'll have to add value, hit the niche areas, and if we can do that with manufacturing and primary industries, we have plenty of people who would like a sensible-paying job in those areas.

Particularly in manufacturing, sited close to all the new state-built properties - which you declined to point out, won't be staying on the govt books like the first lot.

Everyone pays GST huh? Yes they do, sort of. Did Sam Morgan pay 15% GST on the Trademe sale? No. Once that money was banked or reinvested, he only needs to pay GST on the relatively small amount of end-user goods he purchases in NZ. Hundreds of millions of one-off income, no tax to pay. You and I, a lot less income each year, will pay around 25-35% on every net dollar we earn.

Sam and many others are repeating this process with other startups. On one hand it's great to have capital being used like this, but a cynic might say that it's one of the few areas where you can use that amount of capital, and yet not have to pay any tax on the profits. As long as the companies are sold off, or you sell your shareholding at some point, before taxes on net profit are due.

Maybe Labour did have a lucky break with the world economy in their last term, but they largely used the income to pay off old public debt, and I remember National extolling them to keep borrowing instead, and to pay the surplus back as a tax refund. No-one runs a business operation like that. Even Russell Norman would do better.

If Sam Morgan makes a habit of flicking off businesses he will certainly pay tax on sale profits, as I'm sure you know.