MCY Mercury NZ ( MRP Mighty River Power)

[Harvey Specter]

That ignores the fact that by redistributing locally the big retailers avoid transmission fees. With costs reducing for solar and batteries fast and energy from other sources going up the way of the future is with the customer not the retailers.

True it does avoid transmission fees but not distribution fees. But that is irrelevant as Transmission is a pass through cost. Anyway, surely this just means you should be calculating based on the average spot rate at the closest GXP? Complicated area (so I probably have it wrong) - keep it simple - if you are buying power generation the same costs should apply whether it is from a large hydrodam, windfarm, gas generator or a small solar, wind turbine. That price is the spot wholesale rate.

There is also additional metering costs (a second meter is needed - it doesn't run backwards), admin costs (an invoice must be created and posted/emailed), and profit (nothing is free).

[Schrodinger]

Great run on the stock recently grats to all the winners.

[horus1]

Transmission is a cost to get the remote generators power to market. It should not be charged to local generation. As batteries arrive more and more of the transmission will be redundant. at present the changes by the retailers will only drive a negative attitude to the electricity industry by the public and later many will leave it , 2-3 years.

[Biscuit]

Transmission is a cost to get the remote generators power to market. It should not be charged to local generation. As batteries arrive more and more of the transmission will be redundant. at present the changes by the retailers will only drive a negative attitude to the electricity industry by the public and later many will leave it , 2-3 years.

Negative attitudes probably don't drive consumer electricity choices. There is unlikely to ever be significant govt subsidy for residential solar power in NZ as we already generate most of our power with renewables. Without subsidy, home PV is unlikely to compete with large scale generation in the foreseeable future.

[Harvey Specter]

Transmission is a cost to get the remote generators power to market. It should not be charged to local generation. As batteries arrive more and more of the transmission will be redundant. at present the changes by the retailers will only drive a negative attitude to the electricity industry by the public and later many will leave it , 2-3 years.

And it isn't. Those with Grid tied solar only pay transmission and distribution charged on electricity they consume from the network. They dont get charged transmission/distribution charged on power they sell back to the network.

Are you saying that the retailer should give a rebate for 'avoided transmission costs' as they can sell your power to your next door neighbour? Again, if they use the spot rate at the closest GXP, then they should be using the right rate?

[Biscuit]

.... home PV is unlikely to compete with large scale generation in the foreseeable future.

or more to the point, home power generation is unlikely to ever compete with large scale generation.

[horus1]

I was at the front of the theory of transmission pricing . The fallacy is that the consumer not the supplier should pay for it. It would and is better to have local generation distributed, look overseas.Local generation is competing with remote generation now.At 30c/kwhr it is cheaper to do your own , that is why loads are declining when GDP is increasing.Have a look at the p/e's on these electricity cos , they are exorbitant.

[Harvey Specter]

I was at the front of the theory of transmission pricing.

Can you answer this then. Networks have to be built for peak demand. To the extent a solar user is using the network during peak, but not during mid peak, aren't the freeloading a bit? (I realise it is similar to someone who is only home during night hours only but aren't the making it worse by having negative demand during the day, as oppose to minimal demand).

I agree that solar is very close to being economic, and as batteries become cheaper, the peak shaving ability will have real network benefits.

One difference is we have relatively low cost generation due to the old dams don't we?

Re Gentailers, they are in a competitive market - similar to petrol stations

[horus1]

I agree about the peak BUT the trouble is that the gen/retailers are overcharging the small customers as they have little competition on them. the marginal station is thermal or geothermal and that is what they all get paid for.In the finish it will come down to customer choice and a lot of customers will elect to go independent or in small local groups. Batteries change the whole nature of the electricity industry. these are my thoughts and they may be wrong , it will probably take 3 years before the affects start to show. I haven't bought any of the SOE,s and have been wrong so far.

[Biscuit]

Seems unlikely to me that any significant number of customers would choose to "go independent or in small local groups". Personally, I'd happily pay extra to a large gentailer just to avoid horror of having to deal with a small local group or some kind of independent supply and I'd guess that would be true for most people.