sharesies.nz

[blackcap]

No I'm not bitter but its finance not tiddlywinks.

I have followed your posts and fully applaud your investing and the strategy and totally agree that diversification is important for any portfolio
but even you aren't buying 3 shares or 27 shares you're buying small parcels that cost $500 minimum and that's totally cool.
I bought my first bond from Northern Territory Australia for $A500 - that was the minimum size and still wasn't worthwhile when I took exchange costs into account.

There must have been a reason for a minimum parcel and now we know what it was.

I tend to disagree with you on this one Peat. Technology has allowed the minimum parcel sizes to be redundant. I too used to know the term "odd lot".
Unfortunately it is the NZX that is not up to the party here trying to run a modern system on old hard/software. The NZX have made Sharesies a market participant. More fool them if they did not see the enthusiasm that the ordinary folk had for investing in shares and being able to make their own balanced portfolios with minimal $.
I am in the process of making my own index fund, which I will manage and invest in on my own behalf. Now with Sharesies it is possible to do something like that even with a portfolio value of even say $25k. In the past it would have been prohibitive.

[SBQ]

I tend to disagree with you on this one Peat. Technology has allowed the minimum parcel sizes to be redundant. I too used to know the term "odd lot".
Unfortunately it is the NZX that is not up to the party here trying to run a modern system on old hard/software. The NZX have made Sharesies a market participant. More fool them if they did not see the enthusiasm that the ordinary folk had for investing in shares and being able to make their own balanced portfolios with minimal $.
I am in the process of making my own index fund, which I will manage and invest in on my own behalf. Now with Sharesies it is possible to do something like that even with a portfolio value of even say $25k. In the past it would have been prohibitive.

How are you accomplishing this in a NZ market presence by sector / industry? The NZ50 alone is too risky with so many in that list that will be destined for bankruptcy. Will you be tracking every stock in that sector and do all the rebalancing? How about the high commissions for making trades ; which will reflect in your annual cost? If lowering risk through diversification is your strategy, i'm afraid you won't do it in the NZ market.

[blackcap]

How are you accomplishing this in a NZ market presence by sector / industry? The NZ50 alone is too risky with so many in that list that will be destined for bankruptcy. Will you be tracking every stock in that sector and do all the rebalancing? How about the high commissions for making trades ; which will reflect in your annual cost? If lowering risk through diversification is your strategy, i'm afraid you won't do it in the NZ market.

I will be using the NZ50 as a proxy. In my younger years I used to administer a passive NZ fund. Its not that difficult to do in Excel. I will have parameters so that rebalancing only has to be done weekly (or monthly) and there will be some leeway in the requirements to avoid unnecessary transactions. Brokerage on Sharesies is so low that this is immaterial. Other passive funds also have brokerage to contend with yet its not a problem for them. As with passive funds, I will not be trying to pick winners or losers. Just invest within the parameter and get the index return (including the management fee which I will pocket myself) Ie not have to pay Smartshares their 0.54% per annum or whatever it is these days.

[peat]

I tend to disagree with you on this one Peat. Technology has allowed the minimum parcel sizes to be redundant. I too used to know the term "odd lot".

Unfortunately it is the NZX that is not up to the party here trying to run a modern system on old hard/software. The NZX have made Sharesies a market participant.

If technology had made it the concept of minimum parcels redundant then its quite likely we wouldn't be having these problems would we?

Although I do agree that NZX have miscalculated regarding the impact Sharesies has had so ultimately it is their fault and not Sharesies. Exchanges should be able to cope with much larger volumes than their daily averages
But I still think its worthwhile some cantankerous old rissole like me pointing out where the problem (probably) arises from.

And I've also pointed out - sometime before the Corona crash - that all these tiny investors signalled the end of the bull market. Oddly they are staying around tho so clearly we have a lot further to fall.

[BIRMANBOY]

I cannot see what the problem is? if you look at the traffic on the sales and buys to me it looks like the Sharesies investors are doing quite a bit of buying. In order to test it out I joined up and made a few buys...its very simple..well designed...operates quickly and buying on market my buys were literally filled (and showed) instantly. Admittedly this was on a fairly quiet performer but when I looked at the sales you could see that 90% of those showing were Sharesies people (smaller quantities). My take on this is, firstly buys, though probably smaller individually, actually added up to something more substantial when you put them together. AND this was enabling the largeish sell order to be fulfilled, even if it was in smaller chunks. Dare I say it but sharesies is possibly helping the market from falling further. See below the DB sale chart for Augusta a minute ago....all look like Sharesies

Recent Trades
Price	Volume	Time	Cond
91	2	12:26
90.5	49	12:17
90.5	25	12:17
90.5	28	12:17
90	16	12:00
90.5	2	12:00
90.5	108	12:00
90.5	22	11:59
90.5	11	11:48
90.5	44	11:46
90.5	220	11:29
90.5	146	11:25
90.5	11	11:24
90.5	55	11:07
90.5	28	10:57

If technology had made it the concept of minimum parcels redundant then its quite likely we wouldn't be having these problems would we?

Although I do agree that NZX have miscalculated regarding the impact Sharesies has had so ultimately it is their fault and not Sharesies. Exchanges should be able to cope with much larger volumes than their daily averages
But I still think its worthwhile some cantankerous old rissole like me pointing out where the problem (probably) arises from.

And I've also pointed out - sometime before the Corona crash - that all these tiny investors signalled the end of the bull market. Oddly they are staying around tho so clearly we have a lot further to fall.

[peat]

I cannot see what the problem is?

The problem is that online brokers are very slow in updating trade status , as in hours or overnight in some cases.
.
The brokers are blaming NZX systems and now we can see NZX accept that responsibility.

NZX have confirmed It is a transactional capacity issue which is presumably brought on by a large number of smaller retail investors that have entered the market for various reasons recently facilitated mainly by Sharesies who operate with no minimum transaction size.

[justakiwi]

So if we agree that it is an NZX issue, which hopefully they will address, can we give Sharesies and Sharesies investors a break? There is room for all of us, and we all have a part to play, regardless of the size of our pay checks, wallets or portfolios.

The problem is that online brokers are very slow in updating trade status , as in hours or overnight in some cases.
.
The brokers are blaming NZX systems and now we can see NZX accept that responsibility.

NZX have confirmed It is a transactional capacity issue which is presumably brought on by a large number of smaller retail investors that have entered the market for various reasons recently facilitated mainly by Sharesies who operate with no minimum transaction size.

[peat]

So if we agree that it is an NZX issue, which hopefully they will address, can we give Sharesies and Sharesies investors a break? T

not really !!

coz the NZX has made a mistake where the impact goes beyond themselves - after all this is a regulated monopoly provider
The people who pay most of the fees in the industry generated through transactional costs (I.e the decent sized players using online brokers or even standard retail brokers ) are being penalised with delays all so that a lot of penny and dime transactions (generating hardly any fees for anybody) can be dealt with.

It doesn't seem quite fair to me.

However let me make it quite clear that I don't personally care myself all that much ! Because I day trade using a CFD provider and invest using an online broker where minute by minute prices are not so imperative that I can deal with it using limits etc. Hence why I have chastised Sharesies for causing the problem I have also suggested day traders use a different mechanism , one that is more able to provide instantaneous results.



all the best justakiwi, I sincerely am glad you can buy securities (but lets be real - the cost of you doing so is actually being paid for by larger investors)

<subject closed from me>

[justakiwi]

I am sorry I am costing you money. Sincerely.

all the best justakiwi, I sincerely am glad you can buy securities (but lets be real - the cost of you doing so is actually being paid for by larger investors

Probably best.

<subject closed from me>

[blackcap]

not really !!

.



all the best justakiwi, I sincerely am glad you can buy securities (but lets be real - the cost of you doing so is actually being paid for by larger investors)

<subject closed from me>

Maybe the cost is being subsidised. But that is because the NZX have set the rules the way they have set them. If you don't like it don't play in their pool. Seems like you have done that already with your CFD positions.
I too have done that, now using Sharesies more than I would use Direct Broking. If everyone left Direct/ASB and went and used Sharesies it would be problem solved and everyone benefits. It is Direct Broking and ASB that need to adapt or they will become the relics that got taken over by digital disruptors. If the NZX does not allow them to adapt then they need to lobby the NZX or change their own business model. Direct, 20 years ago, was the disruptor themselves and which I was part of instigating. They may need to evolve again.