National - FFS!

[fungus pudding]

For those that think these ACT politicians policy to repeal the current gun laws is harmless, I would urge you to consider that our Police Force who are having to face increasingly dangerous situations, not only fully support the current Arms Legislation & want a gun register, but say it was long overdue.

if anyone thinks at the tender age of 38, David Seymour living in a bubble representing one of NZ's wealthiest & least violent suburbs is a better judge of the situation & knows more than the experienced Police Commissioner & Police men & women on the front line, then please reconsider.

Both cars and drivers need to be registered or licensed, & so should weapons and owners.

Who would it help if we do not know how many weapons we have in NZ & what sort of weapons & the number a particular individual or individuals associated with group or gang hold?
If both guns & owners have to be licensed, ultimately it will be harder for them to get into the wrong hands & easier to track them down if they do. (not just my opinion but the Police's).

If ACT were to repeal the current laws, it will put our police in greater danger.
Think about it, the Police support these laws, as does 70% of NZ's population, this is not something ACT should be saying they know better.
Their spurious claim they can make safer gun laws without a gun register is idealistic nonsense & not based on real life experience.

What makes you think there won't be a gun register?

[Blue Skies]

What makes you think there won't be a gun register?

ACT Party Policy, ACT would - item 6, says apart from repealing the current law which is supported by the Police, they would 'stop the creation of a full register, which would include firearms which are currently category A'

[Balance]

OK Balance. before I put you back on ignore, I’m going to try something new. I have one question for you, which I would very much appreciate a mature and full answer to.

Put all your ranting and raving about Labour and Jacinda aside for a minute. Tell me exactly what you want to see whichever party wins the election - promise to do over the next 3 years post election. Give me a detailed list please clearly outlining each point on your “Government To Do List” with an explanation for how you expect said government to achieve each item on the list.

This will give you the opportunity to make your case for policy you want to see in place, regardless of which party is in power, and who knows, it might help us get a better picture of what it is you want, without the distraction of all the usual blather. No mention of Labour or Jacinda, or National or Collins. All I am interested in is policy/projects/plans for NZ for the next 3 years.

Over to you. The floor is yours.

Fair enough, justakiwi.

I will happily articulate exactly as requested.

Quid pro quo, will you stop making excuses for the numerous failures and broken promises made by this government but instead, provide us all with a full explanation of why said promises were made and broken?

The floor is now yours.

[fungus pudding]

ACT Party Policy, ACT would - item 6, says apart from repealing the current law which is supported by the Police, they would 'stop the creation of a full register, which would include firearms which are currently category A'

Isn't it only type A that they suggest do not need registering? My understanding is there will still be a register for all other guns.

https://www.act.org.nz/firearms) Note item 6.


(The "general" (or "type A") licence gives permission to own and use "sporting configuration" firearms. A sporting configuration firearm is a rifle or shotgun that does not meet the legal definition of any of a Military-Style Semi-Automatic (MSSA), "Restricted Weapon" or "pistol".)

[dobby41]

Isn't it only type A that they suggest do not need registering? My understanding is there will still be a register for all other guns.

https://www.act.org.nz/firearms) Note item 6.


(The "general" (or "type A") licence gives permission to own and use "sporting configuration" firearms. A sporting configuration firearm is a rifle or shotgun that does not meet the legal definition of any of a Military-Style Semi-Automatic (MSSA), "Restricted Weapon" or "pistol".)

Hard to know really
"ACT’s bottom line is to repeal this year’s Arms Legislation Act, including the threat of a firearm register, then set about making the world’s best firearm laws that balance public safety, firearms control, and freedom."
Then
"6 Stop the creation of a full register, which would include firearms that are presently A category"
So stop the register!
Or 'stop the register including A category'
Very confusing - it means what you want it to mean.

I still don't see the problem with a register - a step in the right direction.

[justakiwi]

you are so predictable Balance. Once again, your response is another deflection. You have not “articulated” anything in response to my questions - which well you know. Exactly as I expected.

By the way, just to clarify, I don’t recall ever making any post/comment, anywhere, that mentioned promises made by Labour, so I fail to see how I have ever “made excuses” for what you perceive as failings or broken promises.

Fair enough, justakiwi.

I will happily articulate exactly as requested.

Quid pro quo, will you stop making excuses for the numerous failures and broken promises made by this government but instead, provide us all with a full explanation of why said promises were made and broken?

The floor is now yours.

[Balance]

you are so predictable Balance. Once again, your response is another deflection. You have not “articulated” anything in response to my questions - which well you know. Exactly as I expected.

By the way, just to clarify, I don’t recall ever making any post/comment, anywhere, that mentioned promises made by Labour, so I fail to see how I have ever “made excuses” for what you perceive as failings or broken promises.

Deflection?

Seriously, what's the point for example of putting down an expectation & a promise of 15,000 houses per annum to be built via a post-war style large scale state housing construction plan to be achieved by year 3 of any new government if you are not prepared to accept that this government made a promise in 2017 to build 10,000 houses a year by 2020 and explain why they failed so totally and dismally?

And as an ex-property developer, I can assure you that it can be done - because that's what is being achieved in developing countries, let alone a first world country like NZ.

From history we learn not to repeat mistakes - but only if we accept that promises were made & broken, and more to the point, mistakes were made.

Floor as you wrote, is yours.

I have no problem articulating exactly my expectations of whichever government comes to power in Sept 2020. But why should I (or anyone) waste time when there are posters here busy making excuses and attempting to shift the blame every which way to every other party (for broken promises & failed policies) but the current government?

[Blue Skies]

Isn't it only type A that they suggest do not need registering? My understanding is there will still be a register for all other guns.

https://www.act.org.nz/firearms) Note item 6.


(The "general" (or "type A") licence gives permission to own and use "sporting configuration" firearms. A sporting configuration firearm is a rifle or shotgun that does not meet the legal definition of any of a Military-Style Semi-Automatic (MSSA), "Restricted Weapon" or "pistol".)

Here's a copy & paste from ACT's policy manifesto which states they will do away with a gun register which the police want. Obviously the gangs & criminals don't want a register, makes it far easier to get hold of weapons.

The current law has cross party support from all parties except ACT & remember submissions were heard from everybody & apart from the Police including the Gun shop owner & lobbyist Mr Tipple ( indicted in the US for buying large numbers of guns using false ID & also charged at Los Angeles Airport for trying to carry 29 guns & 340 rounds of live ammunition on an aircraft & spent 21 months in jail) who frequently appeared on TV at the submission process.



ACT’S Real Solution For Fair Firearms

ACT’s bottom line is to repeal this year’s Arms Legislation Act, including the threat of a firearm register, then set about making the world’s best firearm laws that balance public safety, firearms control, and freedom.

[fungus pudding]

Hard to know really
"ACT’s bottom line is to repeal this year’s Arms Legislation Act, including the threat of a firearm register, then set about making the world’s best firearm laws that balance public safety, firearms control, and freedom."
Then
"6 Stop the creation of a full register, which would include firearms that are presently A category"
So stop the register!
Or 'stop the register including A category'
Very confusing - it means what you want it to mean.

I still don't see the problem with a register - a step in the right direction.

It is ambiguous. They want to stop a full register; not do away with the gun register.

[Blue Skies]

It is ambiguous. They want to stop a full register; not do away with the gun register.

So the way I see it, ACT's policy 'to repeal this years Arm's Legislation Act, including the threat of a firearms register,' sounds like they propose revoking the firearm register.

However, whatever the detail, & even if it was in part, there is no doubt they want to heavily water down & soften the recently introduced gun laws, a vote grabber with some fanatics in the gun lobby, the gangs & some criminals.

As we have seen with tragic results, guns shops & the internet provide devices to alter guns from one category to another anyway so having any exemptions is naive policy based on some academic principal rather than real life experience.