OCA - Oceania Group - retirement villages

[Snoopy]

So I've accumulated a good chunk of these (all relative of course) over the last few months and my average is sub 80c. I'd like to buy another parcel with some cash that I may need to pull back out of the market again in the next few weeks or months, but in the interim hoping to make a tidy little capital gain.

Cyclical, seriously don't do this. If you need that money in the next few weeks or months, don't go anywhere near the stock market, With the stock market so high, volatility high, and such a small time frame, what you propose is pure gambling. Stick your money in a three month term deposit at 0.4%. That is about as risky as I would go in your situation.

SNOOPY

[bull....]

Right peeps, I wouldn't mind adding a few more of these to my portfolio too, but I'm in a bit of a predicament, and no doubt I'll cheese some off for going "off topic" and bringing up the T word again, for which I apologise in advance, but for me it is very pertinent to this stock and this thread does have a greater portion of switched on contributors, so here goes...

So I've accumulated a good chunk of these (all relative of course) over the last few months and my average is sub 80c. I'd like to buy another parcel with some cash that I may need to pull back out of the market again in the next few weeks or months, but in the interim hoping to make a tidy little capital gain. So let's say I bought a bunch today at 136c and sold them again in 2 or 3 months for say 163, netting a tidy 27c per share / 20% gain in the process. However, because my average buy for all my OCA is 80c, does the tax man consider this as an 83c gain, upon which I'm expected to pay 33%, or 27c per share? In which case all I've done is transfer 27c from other investors to the IRD. And in the quite likely scenario I don't manage to get that 20% gain, I'd be in the red. No doubt this is a grey area and the vast majority of investors / traders probably wouldn't give it a second thought, but unfortunately I am and it's seriously stopping me from plunging deeper into this stock. Any experts out there to tell me I've got it wrong and have nothing to worry about and to just go all in?!

Thanks in advance and sorry for the "off topic" but there's nothing else to do around here until January, right?

It first in first out for tax , couta wrong. yes if your a trader all trades are considered one so it would be on your 83c gains

[Beagle]

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[BlackPeter]

Cyclical, seriously don't do this. If you need that money in the next few weeks or months, don't go anywhere near the stock market, With the stock market so high, volatility high, and such a small time frame, what you propose is pure gambling. Stick your money in a three month term deposit at 0.4%. That is about as risky as I would go in your situation.

SNOOPY

Absolutely - very sensible comment.

Nobody can predict at any time what share market jitters are around the corner, and at current it does not even look like calm waters ahead. No guarantee for a peaceful transfer of power in the US. Northern hemisphere Covid wave will take a terrible toll. Economy will at some stage run out of borrowed money and unprecedented debt mountains might start crashing down on our economies.

Huge opportunities for traders, but even more than usual risks to put money short time into the share market.

[Cyclical]

Cyclical, seriously don't do this. If you need that money in the next few weeks or months, don't go anywhere near the stock market, With the stock market so high, volatility high, and such a small time frame, what you propose is pure gambling. Stick your money in a three month term deposit at 0.4%. That is about as risky as I would go in your situation.

SNOOPY

Absolutely - very sensible comment.

Nobody can predict at any time what share market jitters are around the corner, and at current it does not even look like calm waters ahead. No guarantee for a peaceful transfer of power in the US. Northern hemisphere Covid wave will take a terrible toll. Economy will at some stage run out of borrowed money and unprecedented debt mountains might start crashing down on our economies.

Huge opportunities for traders, but even more than usual risks to put money short time into the share market.

Thanks for the advice guys. I should probably rephrase from "may need" to "may want" those funds. It's not money that I'm going to be relying on specifically, so I'm comfortable with the risk and if I'm down 20% or something, I won't sell, no dramas.

Anyway, if what Bull is saying is the case, then it's just not worth it unfortunately. I wonder how many traders out there think like this. I myself was trading this stock back when it was on the 80s gaining a few percent here and there but completely oblivious to the fact that the tax could be reeming me considerably more than my gains :-(

[BlackPeter]

...

Anyway, if what Bull is saying is the case, then it's just not worth it unfortunately. I wonder how many traders out there think like this. I myself was trading this stock back when it was on the 80s gaining a few percent here and there but completely oblivious to the fact that the tax could be reeming me considerably more than my gains :-(

Never let the need for paying tax stop you to do a good deal. Sure - if you are trading, IRD will want its fair share ... however I can't see how they want more than that.

Say you pay the new top tax rate (39%) ... still better to gain 61% of a nice gain rather than to have nothing, isn't it?

[bull....]

Never let the need for paying tax stop you to do a good deal. Sure - if you are trading, IRD will want its fair share ... however I can't see how they want more than that.

Say you pay the new top tax rate (39%) ... still better to gain 61% of a nice gain rather than to have nothing, isn't it?

and just like property traders/ investors you need to take all the deductions of your tax bill too. as a long term share investor you do not cqualify for any deductions

[couta1]

It first in first out for tax , couta wrong. yes if your a trader all trades are considered one so it would be on your 83c gains

Your talking bull**** bull and I reckon i know a whole lot more than you in this area, you can use LIFO or FIFO or the avg cost method, don't listen to bull cyclical, pm me and ill discuss with you.

[bull....]

Your talking bull**** bull and I reckon i know a whole lot more than you in this area, you can use LIFO or FIFO or the avg cost method, don't listen to bull cyclical, pm me and ill discuss with you.

you cant swap and choose as you like lol

[Cyclical]

Never let the need for paying tax stop you to do a good deal. Sure - if you are trading, IRD will want its fair share ... however I can't see how they want more than that.

Say you pay the new top tax rate (39%) ... still better to gain 61% of a nice gain rather than to have nothing, isn't it?

Agreed in principal, BP, but I'm not sure you understand my calculations...

Buy @ 136
Sell @ 163
Margin = 27c or 20%

Unfortunately it's not going to be 33% tax on the 27c (9c) because my average buy for OCA over the year is about 80c, so in the eyes of the IRD...

Sale of new parcel @ 163
Average buy = 80
Realised gain = 83
Tax @ 33% = 27c

That's a pretty tough result. Breaking even and that's before you consider brokerage and the risk that it may not see a 20% gain. Surely the system, if it is indeed strictly FIFO, is flawed and that LIFO would be a much fairer accounting method in this instance? Grey AF I suspect, unless it's well documented somewhere...?