Labour govt 2020-23

[Logen Ninefingers]

It sounds like you don't care about the environment, the globe or the future of our children. Maybe you don't have any - so - why bother, only a better woman would.

Sounds like as well you are one of the people happy to watch the village burn down ... I guess the firefighters didn't yet come and rumors are that in a land far away people there continue to accumulate fuel, so why should you move a finger? And hey, if the fire jumps over to your house, than it clearly was all the fault of the firefighters, wasn't it?

However - you might care about our general economic situation. If we can't sell anymore our produce and if tourists consistently avoid the dirty and brown New Zealand, maybe then people like you find out that they can't live from spreading irresponsible talk alone.

Most of our trading partners are currently implementing restrictions against importing from countries who don't do enough to stem climate change. The European Union is at the forefront of this movement.

Will be fun if nobody buys our milk, vegies, fruit, meat or wool anymore because we only produce hot air instead of fighting climate change, wouldn't it?

What you and your ilk care about is rabbiting on about 'neoliberalism' and ute taxes, while China increases its per capita carbon emissions every year until 2030 - by which time the planet will be well and truly cooked.

Do you really care about the planet?
Or is this more about agitating for a communist revolution?
Or more about hating on farmers?

China has pledged that its emissions will peak around 2030, but that high-water mark would still mean that the country is generating huge quantities CO2 — 12.9 billion to 14.7 billion tons of carbon dioxide annually for the next decade, or as much as 15 percent per year above 2015 levels, according to a Climate Action Tracker analysis.

[Balance]

What you and your ilk care about is rabbiting on about 'neoliberalism' and ute taxes, while China increases its per capita carbon emissions every year until 2030 - by which time the planet will be well and truly cooked.

Do you really care about the planet?
Or is this more about agitating for a communist revolution?
Or more about hating on farmers?

China has pledged that its emissions will peak around 2030, but that high-water mark would still mean that the country is generating huge quantities CO2 — 12.9 billion to 14.7 billion tons of carbon dioxide annually for the next decade, or as much as 15 percent per year above 2015 levels, according to a Climate Action Tracker analysis.

China is the world's factory - reason for high emission.

When the world cuts back on consumption of consumer goods, China's emission will drop.

It's that simple.

[BlackPeter]

What you and your ilk care about is rabbiting on about 'neoliberalism' and ute taxes, while China increases its per capita carbon emissions every year until 2030 - by which time the planet will be well and truly cooked.

Do you really care about the planet?
Or is this more about agitating for a communist revolution?
Or more about hating on farmers?

China has pledged that its emissions will peak around 2030, but that high-water mark would still mean that the country is generating huge quantities CO2 — 12.9 billion to 14.7 billion tons of carbon dioxide annually for the next decade, or as much as 15 percent per year above 2015 levels, according to a Climate Action Tracker analysis.

Incredibly stupid post, given that BaaBaa's recent posting already documented that NZ is producing per head more CO2 than China does. We better do something about that before we start the finger pointing game, shall we?

And of course - we all need to improve our act. China, the US (ways worse per head than China), India, Europe - and yes, we in NZ as well.

However just sitting on our hands and pointing fingers to others is clearly ridiculous and counterproductive.

Did this work for you in kindergarten? Quite difficult actually to point fingers while you sit on your hands, but it appears your perfected this game .

Well, here is news for you - nobody can change things they can't control, but everybody can change the things they can control. So, why not starting with that?

We can control New Zealand's CO2 output, but we can't control China.

BTW - Matthew 7:5 springs to mind:

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye

While I am not religious - there is a lot of wisdom in the book, isn't it?

[Logen Ninefingers]

Incredibly stupid post, given that BaaBaa's recent posting already documented that NZ is producing per head more CO2 than China does. We better do something about that before we start the finger pointing game, shall we?

And of course - we all need to improve our act. China, the US (ways worse per head than China), India, Europe - and yes, we in NZ as well.

However just sitting on our hands and pointing fingers to others is clearly ridiculous and counterproductive.

Did this work for you in kindergarten? Quite difficult actually to point fingers while you sit on your hands, but it appears your perfected this game .

Well, here is news for you - nobody can change things they can't control, but everybody can change the things they can control. So, why not starting with that?

We can control New Zealand's CO2 output, but we can't control China.

BTW - Matthew 7:5 springs to mind:



While I am not religious - there is a lot of wisdom in the book, isn't it?

We can control New Zealand's CO2 output, but we can't control China.

So we will start cutting our emissions, and meanwhile China will be increasing theirs year on year for the next 9 years.....and you think that will 'save the planet'? Lol.

[SBQ]

We can control New Zealand's CO2 output, but we can't control China.

So we will start cutting our emissions, and meanwhile China will be increasing theirs year on year for the next 9 years.....and you think that will 'save the planet'? Lol.

If you have not picked up my meaning in my last post, the rise in China's emissions is to the benefit of the world through their production of goods. Would you rather have solar PVs produced in say Africa? or places where the product would be very inefficient and at a much higher carbon emission level?

Items like solar PVs, lithium batteries, etc are made in China for good reason.

[Balance]

If you have not picked up my meaning in my last post, the rise in China's emissions is to the benefit of the world through their production of goods. Would you rather have solar PVs produced in say Africa? or places where the product would be very inefficient and at a much higher carbon emission level?

Items like solar PVs, lithium batteries, etc are made in China for good reason.

Don’t debate with those who have no appreciation of the bigger picture, SBQ.

You are debating with a brick wall.

China is the world's factory - producing goods at reasonable prices vs when the same goods were produced in US, Japan or Europe (or for that matter, NZ & Australia).

Meanwhile, countries like the US with its cheap oil & energy policies are polluting the world and nobody says anything.

[FTG]

Incredibly stupid post, given that BaaBaa's recent posting already documented that NZ is producing per head more CO2 than China does.

The figures quoted in Blue Skies post is a gentle reminder for us all that as with any argument, depending on which stats one selects & how one presents the raw data, an argument can be validated or invalidated accordingly.

In this case, assuming for a moment that the Chinese CO2 per capita figures are correct (which to be frank are likely to be well underestimated), then just by presenting them a little differently one can form quite a different view.

Specifically, we know the population of China is circa 1.5 Billion. We also know that over the last couple of decades there has been a large Rural to Urban drift. BUT....there are still considerable numbers (over 35% - 530 Million people) living in a rural setting, mostly emitting very low levels of CO2. Comparatively, the NZ rural population is around only <14%. Understandably these demographic facts significantly distort any "CO2 per capita" stats.

Additionally, as we are also told, NZ's agriculture industry produces more than 50% of the country's emissions. Agriculture that is generally more "CO2 efficient" than other agricultural producing countries. Cows, Sheep etc that if weren't in NZ you can absolutely be sure would still exist somewhere else on the planet, to meet the food needs of the world's population, but in a less efficient manner.

Thirdly, once again taking those same Chinese per capita figures (again; very likely understated) then they ALSO tell us that China is producing more than 300 x the amount of CO2 than NZ.

Making Chinese non-agricultural (Industrial & Household) CO2 emissions well in excess of 500 x that of NZ.

Certainly alters the perspective a little.

[Baa_Baa]

Could someone remind me what post of mine that you are referring to? Either I've forgotten, or am being attributed with posting stats that I did not actually post. I normally refrain from participating in this thread, just a lurker & reader.

[FTG]

Could someone remind me what post of mine that you are referring to? Either I've forgotten, or am being attributed with posting stats that I did not actually post. I normally refrain from participating in this thread, just a lurker & reader.

My apologies Baa_Baa. I blindly followed BP's assertion that it was you making the quote! Looking back it was actually Blue Skies.

I have edited my post accordingly - referring to Blue Skies stats.

[fungus pudding]

Could someone remind me what post of mine that you are referring to? Either I've forgotten, or am being attributed with posting stats that I did not actually post. I normally refrain from participating in this thread, just a lurker & reader.

Could you include the post, or part of, that you are referring to, for those who try to follow the thread?