Capital Gains Tax

[iceman]

Au contraire - A big part of the reason for investigating a CGT was because home ownership rates have been falling due to rising prices. One of the big reasons for that is that investors have been prepared to receive low taxable net rent returns in the expectation that they will receive untaxed capiital gains.

We are the only country in the OECD that does not have a formal CGT although we have the Brightline tax which of course is CGT in disguise. Most of other OECD have a CGT with many exemptions and lower rates than normal income tax. But it has not stopped them from having exactly the same issues as NZ with run away house prices and high rents. The idea that CGT will be a guarantee to lower house prices and lower rent is simply not supported by any evidence

[macduffy]

I've probably missed something here but do the TWG recommendations include allowing tax deductions in respect of capital losses? Tax loss selling of doggy shares in the weeks leading up to the end of the financial year is a feature of the Aussie market.

[fungus pudding]

I've probably missed something here but do the TWG recommendations include allowing tax deductions in respect of capital losses? Tax loss selling of doggy shares in the weeks leading up to the end of the financial year is a feature of the Aussie market.

Proposal from TWG is to allow losses to offset future gains in same asset class, as I understand it.

[macduffy]

Proposal from TWG is to allow losses to offset future gains in same asset class, as I understand it.

Thanks, fungus. But offsetting future gains isn't quite the same thing as allowing losses to offset current year's tax on current other realised capital gains which is what I think the Aussie system is.

In any case, I expect the coalition to cherry-pick what suits it from the recommendations.

[minimoke]

We are the only country in the OECD that does not have a formal CGT although we have the Brightline tax which of course is CGT in disguise.

We dont have stamp duty either, or inheritance tax. There musty be loads of taxes we don't have in NZ. Doesn't make introducing new one right.

There is only thing to consider. Does the current tax regime raise enough revenue to cover govt expenditure. If so then no change required.

From there you ask how efficiently you can raise those taxes and look for improvements (whole also trying to reduce govt expenditure)

And then from there you try to figure out a relatively fair scheme where each person pays there fair share. This is where it gets hard because nothing in life is fair. No point trying to make it dead fair cos such a thing is impossible.

In any tax system there will be winners and losers. Is it fair that those on minimum incomes and pay less tax get to enjoy most of the government expenditure. No. But that's the way it is.

Is it fair that people work hard and invest in the hope of bettering themselves (and paying taxes along the way) reap some capital gain (when times are good). No. but that helps offset the other unfairnesses.

[fungus pudding]

We dont have stamp duty either, or inheritance tax. There musty be loads of taxes we don't have in NZ. Doesn't make introducing new one right.

There is only thing to consider. Does the current tax regime raise enough revenue to cover govt expenditure. If so then no change required.

From there you ask how efficiently you can raise those taxes and look for improvements (whole also trying to reduce govt expenditure)

I'd like to see income tax lowered and flattened and GST increased. There's a rainbow full of golden pots available from millions of tourists with an increase in GST.

[macduffy]

I'd like to see income tax lowered and flattened and GST increased. There's a rainbow full of golden pots available from millions of tourists with an increase in GST.

No thanks. Increasing the tax on the day to day spending of 4.5m New Zealanders to catch that of a few thousand tourists who are here at any given time doesn't appeal!

[fungus pudding]

No thanks. Increasing the tax on the day to day spending of 4.5m New Zealanders to catch that of a few thousand tourists who are here at any given time doesn't appeal!

Well, it appeals to me, and probably many others who pay income tax. 'Never punish earnings or earners - clobber them when they spend'. (Aristotle Pudding)

[Bjauck]

...

In any tax system there will be winners and losers. Is it fair that those on minimum incomes and pay less tax get to enjoy most of the government expenditure. No. But that's the way it is.

Is it fair that people work hard and invest in the hope of bettering themselves (and paying taxes along the way) reap some capital gain (when times are good). No. but that helps offset the other unfairnesses.

Fairness is determined by those who have the political control. At the moment that means income is taxed and capital gains on most residential property is not. So a big win for the long term landowner who leveraged themself into lots of residential properties.

[Bjauck]

We are the only country in the OECD that does not have a formal CGT although we have the Brightline tax which of course is CGT in disguise. Most of other OECD have a CGT with many exemptions and lower rates than normal income tax. But it has not stopped them from having exactly the same issues as NZ with run away house prices and high rents. The idea that CGT will be a guarantee to lower house prices and lower rent is simply not supported by any evidence

yep there are ways in which capital gains are already captured. Brightline is one such way if you buy and sell within five years.

Of course a cgt will not guarantee affordable housing especially since the family home did not form part of the review and NZ does not have the stamp duties that other countries have.

NZ has amongst the most unaffordable housing in The OECD with residential property comprising a very large share of household wealth. So I would think it would make sense to try to encourage the diversification of household wealth away from residential housing. As a Sharetrader poster, It would be nice if NZ shares featured more prominently as household investment and helped stop the exodus of NZ listings...

However the point I was responding to was that “Labour clearly do not want people to own their own homes”. I have yet to know why that accusation was made.

Of course the same wild accusation could have been made of previous governments that allowed the housing shortage to get out of hand and sat on their hands as home ownership rates dropped and unaffordability climbed.