kiwisaver worth a punt?

[CJ]

Nothing wrong at all CJ if you want a very high risk portfolio that potentially under performs by a big margin. You are leaving all your eggs in the NZ basket. If you choose to gamble only on exposure to the NZ market you will find that most NZ fund managers have a history of outperforming the index by some margin. If you cut through the waffle you will find even Brent Sheather shows that NZ fund managers have outperformed the NZ index. (End few paragraphs)

Thanks. He explains it on three factors:

1 Telecom (I have already identified this and it will have a smaller effect in the future than in the past.
2 Australian shares - smartkiwi also includes part of an Australian index from memory so they are partly covered.
3 small caps - agree.

Compared with the likes of Huljich and GMK though, I dont think I am doing to bad. As my fund gets bigger, i will take more interest which may result in changing funds to chase the best managers (not the best returns).

I haven't heard of Hunterhall but I dont think Platinum do Kiwisaver (it would be good if they did as their managers do seem to be very competent.).

Maybe the question should be 'who are the good fund managers that also do Kiwisaver'.

has GMK just had a bad run? or do they spend too much time riding their bikes around the world.

[minimoke]

Just an example, I'm not an expert. I'm in the Gareth Morgan Growth Fund. I'm happy with my choice. I'm sure I'll stay there for many years to come.

Intersting choice ENP. Why would you be happy with Gareth Morgan when his results (according to Morningstar) are 19th out of 20 over three months; 20th out of 20 over six months; 19th out of 20 over a year and 13th out of 20 over 2 years? And his fees aren't even the lowest.

I can't quite figure why you be happy with perhaps the worst performer in this category when you could easily switch to say AMP ING which is 2nd out of 20 over 3 months and 2nd over 2 years - and consistently in the top half of performers. Sure you'd be paying about 0.16% more in fees but wouldn't this be made up for in better fund performance.

[winner69]

See my returns from GMK on previous page .... pathetic

[minimoke]

See my returns from GMK on previous page .... pathetic

And I repeat the question : Why do you stay?

[ENP]

Intersting choice ENP. Why would you be happy with Gareth Morgan when his results (according to Morningstar) are 19th out of 20 over three months; 20th out of 20 over six months; 19th out of 20 over a year and 13th out of 20 over 2 years? And his fees aren't even the lowest.

I can't quite figure why you be happy with perhaps the worst performer in this category when you could easily switch to say AMP ING which is 2nd out of 20 over 3 months and 2nd over 2 years - and consistently in the top half of performers. Sure you'd be paying about 0.16% more in fees but wouldn't this be made up for in better fund performance.

I'm in for the long term. The sharemarket index has rebounded quite fast over the recovery. GMK hasn't invested heavily in "higher risk/return" stocks recently so that's why I'm assuming the not so flashy returns over the shorter term.

Investment for the long term – no big punts, no chasing the latest investment fad

Preserving the value of your savings is our first priority – diversification is key

Pursuing growth in the value of your savings – but only when satisfied that downside risk is controlled. No reward without risk is a truism, but limiting risk is the key to long-term survival Quote from GMK website

http://gmi.co.nz/Pages/KiwiSaver/Pro...rformance.aspx

Play around with that. Growth funds, September 2007 --> Feb 2010, they aren't last, they are 3rd out of 9

[winner69]

Put Feb09 in and jeez GMK is a loser big time

Gains that will not be repeated for many a year ..... so GMK future outperformance will be added to a lower figure than it should/could have been

Bloody expensive insurance policy that risk minimisation strategy

http://gmi.co.nz/Pages/KiwiSaver/Pro...rformance.aspx

[minimoke]

Play around with that. Growth funds, September 2007 --> Feb 2010, they aren't last, they are 3rd out of 9

And a GMK chart is an "independant " comparrison? Thats a clever move by GMK. Compare yourself with the worst performing funds to make yourself look good.
AMP is 17th on Morningstar, ASB is 12th, 16th or 19th depending which fund you look at - gareth is probablyu using the Tracker Growth; Ing was 10th; and Mercer was 15th. Westapc was 6th. Fisher and Tower aren't shown on the Morningstar "Growth" - perhasp he's referring to the "Aggressive" so I'm not sure if its Apples with apples. The Chartists here would probably describe GMK as a down trending fund.


And whats this:"Pursuing growth in the value of your investments"?? "Preserving the value of your savings"??? And he's admits he's loosing you 4.5% PA or 8.8% overall. When his "Safe Punts move they have to move a heck of a lot before you even break even again.

But thats OK because as we recall its not your money at risk - its the tax payers and your employers topped up a bit by your own loot. And you're happy to pay him low fees to loose your money for you as well. Cullens Kiwisaver vision sure aint working for some. I bet if it was all your hard earned cash at stake you'd be thinking that perhaps a long term play when there are bettter performers out there might.

Oh - my Conservative Kiwisaver alternative is returning me 5.75% PA (better than the average 4.13%) and my Growth is 13.2% - (better than teh -3.59%) - all with with no fees!

[ENP]

Yes, no doubt if it was my "own" money then I wouldn't be investing it in this fund. I wouldn't be putting it in a fund at all. But putting my kiwisaver money into individual stocks and property investment isn't exactly allowed.

[ENP]

Oh - my Conservative Kiwisaver alternative is returning me 5.75% PA (better than the average 4.13%) and my Growth is 13.2% - (better than teh -3.59%) - all with with no fees!

Is this term deposits and stocks?

If you were to be in kiwisaver Minimoke and choose a fund for 30+ years, which would be your top 3? I'm quite interested in your opionion on this one since you seem to know what you are talking about with these figures more than I do.

Thanks.

[beacon]

CJ you got me wondering now .... maybe its a red dashed line that they draw just under the red line to make you feel happy ..... maybe, jsut maybe, that is what the benchmark is

Beauty. The fund managers are working on the premise that if you can't convince them, confuse them. The latter seems to be so much easier anyway.