TOP Party one to watch in this election

[justakiwi]

I think that is what TOP is about.
Challenging the status quo and their progressive policies / ideas is exactly what NZ needs.

Exactly the point I have been trying to make. Our major parties are stuck in a rut. None of them even try to think outside the square. Challenging the status quo is precisely what is needed. Otherwise, what we have been putting up with for the last 40+ years, will be the best we can ever hope for.

As for the vaping - I have no idea which government was in power when vaping first appeared on our doorstep. It doesn't even matter. What matters is, vaping was intended to be a tool for those people trying to quit smoking. It was never intended to be an alternative to smoking, for non-smokers. It absolutely is addictive, but our young people are taking it up at the rate of knots because it is too easily accessible and affordable. My daughter is a theatre nurse. A smart, intelligent, incredible young woman. But she took up vaping some time ago, and is clearly now addicted. She tells me "at least it is better than smoking" but I call BS on that. If one is already a smoker, maybe vaping is the better option. But for someone who never smoked before, vaping is just as harmful, if not more so. If a qualified nurse can be "manipulated" by advertising and societal influences, to take up vaping, what chance do our kids have? As far as I am concerned, NZ should follow Aussie's lead. Vapes should be available on prescription only, supplied by pharmacies only, for people trying to quit smoking. Retail vape shops should be shut down/banned.

[Daytr]

A plan to shower $1 Billion on Christchurch & tougher vaping laws? ‘Exactly what NZ needs.’ Righto, if you say so.

How much is bring showered on Auckland by the main parties? $1Bln to our 2nd biggest city that is still recovering from the quake is quite justified.

And yes much tougher vaping laws.
It's a worse scourge on our youth than smoking.

[justakiwi]

It is really important to read policies in their entirety, to get an accurate picture of proposed changes. Some of you may have missed this detail with regards to the land tax:

Remove GST on rates and use ‘land value’ only for the rating base

So home owners might be paying the new land tax, but they would be paying significantly lower rates.

[Daytr]

It is really important to read policies in their entirety, to get an accurate picture of proposed changes. Some of you may have missed this detail with regards to the land tax:

Remove GST on rates and use ‘land value’ only for the rating base

So home owners might be paying the new land tax, but they would be paying significantly lower rates.

I calculate that on a million dollar home with land value of $400k, rates of $5k a home owner will be paying net an extra $2,348 p.a.

I'm not concerned about this as TOP even if they got into Parliament won't get policies like this over the line.

However what they would do is influence generally, with forward looking transformational policy.

By supporting TOP it will keep them going and hopefully gain more support & funding over time to have a real chance of entering Parliament.

[Logen Ninefingers]

How much is bring showered on Auckland by the main parties? $1Bln to our 2nd biggest city that is still recovering from the quake is quite justified.

And yes much tougher vaping laws.
It's a worse scourge on our youth than smoking.

So you are saying TOP is just doing in Christchurch what us already being done in Auckland….

And ‘tougher laws’…hmmm, where have I heard that before?

Tell me again how TOP offers something totally different from the major parties. 😂

[Daytr]

So you are saying TOP is just doing in Christchurch what us already being done in Auckland….

And ‘tougher laws’…hmmm, where have I heard that before?

Tell me again how TOP offers something totally different from the major parties. 😂

What are you smoking?

[Logen Ninefingers]

TOP may end up supplanting Labour as the dominant party of the Left.

Narrator: 'After Labours devastating defeat in the 2023 election, the party splintered: bitter factional infighting and recriminations saw mass resignations and shocking media revelations. Young 'progressives' and disenchanted former Labour supporters gravitated towards TOP and its promise of a 'fair' tax system and 'fair' society. Charismatic leader Raf Manji was able to build a devoted personal following. After TOP's surprise win in the 2029, campaigning on a slogan of 'We'll do it!' and with their promise of 'transformational' change, their was an initial burst of optimism, but the TOP government eventually collapsed due to its inability to deliver any meaningful results. Manji left NZ politics abruptly, and built a new career within Greenpeace.'

[BlackPeter]

In bold, did you hear about the part where wanted to start a Maori banking scheme with Ngai Tahu being the lead administrators? This is what makes me angry, clueless politicians that have only local experience, with no examples of how they failed abroad.

Working in PTA is purely a volunteer effort and no one is getting paid (unlike all those 6 figure income salaries we see with CCC). So I can tell you thing or 2 what really causes poverty in NZ when dealing with so many low income families. I doubt this Mr Manji has ever had the day of mixing among the poor ; what level of charity has he done? It seems to be he looks like a guy that would have his hands in the money bag by aligning with the elite Maori, oh we've seen this thing before under Labour with it's Maori caucus (awarding contracts to family members being a conflict of interest). I don't trust this guy much in the same way as how Donald Trump speaks.

Again, watch the interview again, he specifically says he wants to help the Maori poor while trying to align them with the Ngai Tahu standards. But the fact is every Iwi operates differently and if you ask me about the Ngai Tahu, they no longer serve as a charity but instead, as a mega corporation conglomerate. Such an entity in Canada under charity trust rules would have CGT applied at the 21st year in the trust's existence.

Let me ask you this question. What progress has NZ's WINZ / Dole system proved among the needy and low income poor? I would say, very little and by that metric if it proved anything, then why would giving $5,000 prove to be a game changer?

I would rather all the politicians stop talking about hand outs because it's a waste of time. All I want for this election is a tax cut because in my view, i'm sick of paying taxes to things that have become wasteful spending by the gov't. I want to keep more or my hard earned money in my pocket and hope that if the gov't sees less tax revenue to work with, then they may have to think real hard on where to spend it.

Oh and the issue of Top being neither left or right is a faux. Any action they do will have an effect that can be deemed left or right. Such as giving $ and taxing more $ in a Robin Hood fashion.

Look, you are again making up a strawman of your imagination and than fighting him. Do you realise how misearable and desperate you look by making up stories about the people you don't like and than smearing them with the lies you made up?

I doubt this Mr Manji has ever had the day of mixing among the poor ; what level of charity has he done? It seems to be he looks like a guy that would have his hands in the money bag by aligning with the elite Maori, oh we've seen this thing before under Labour with it's Maori caucus (awarding contracts to family members being a conflict of interest). I don't trust this guy much in the same way as how Donald Trump speaks.

No facts, no evidence, but a whole paragraph of smears.

You are basically a caricature of Donald Trump. Is this really the best the hard right can do? Just wondering, whether you are really a Leftie in disguise, because people like you clearly damage the cause of decent conservatives.

Amazing what you read into a one liner mentioning the idea of a Maori bank. That's enough for you to spread pamphlets of smears and lies. Well, I am not Raf Manjis spokesman, but if already the word "Maori bank" brings you up the palmtree, than I suggest you talk with Raf (just go to his facebook page) and ask him, what he meant. I don't see any harm in the words Maori Bank and Ngai Tahu ... and I could well imagine some concepts which could work. However - as far as I am aware is a Maori Bank not even a TOP policy, it was just an idea of a possible solution to an interview question. Your response is absolutely inappropriate and ridiculous. Do first some research before you start throwing mud.

And yes, you still clearly do not seem to understand that the proposed $5000 are not a handout. I explained that already several times. Are you that thick or are you just trolling?

Are you really unable to comprehend even simple concepts? It is not a proposed benefit. It is (as described by TOP) a proposed reward or "Thank You" for young people who did complete the proposed Civil Service program. Call it "completion benefit" for doing something which was good for our society, whether it was caring for old people, planting trees or cleaning up our environment.

Look, if you want to continue a productive discussion, than lets have that. At this stage it feels however you are just repeating the same nonsense again and again without being able (or willing) to process new information.

This is unproductive, it is trolling, and frankly - you are damaging the election chances of the right parties. Look - while I am sure that some of the trolls might rejoice with you for wasting other peoples time, they would vote right anyway (i.e. no gain for your side). However - a centre right government needs the centre, and at this stage are you and your troll colleagues doing their best to drive decent liberals in droves to the other side. Bad strategy so close to the elections if I may say so ... ;

[Logen Ninefingers]

Look, you are again making up a strawman of your imagination and than fighting him. Do you realise how misearable and desperate you look by making up stories about the people you don't like and than smearing them with the lies you made up?



No facts, no evidence, but a whole paragraph of smears.

You are basically a caricature of Donald Trump. Is this really the best the hard right can do? Just wondering, whether you are really a Leftie in disguise, because people like you clearly damage the cause of decent conservatives.

Amazing what you read into a one liner mentioning the idea of a Maori bank. That's enough for you to spread pamphlets of smears and lies. Well, I am not Raf Manjis spokesman, but if already the word "Maori bank" brings you up the palmtree, than I suggest you talk with Raf (just go to his facebook page) and ask him, what he meant. I don't see any harm in the words Maori Bank and Ngai Tahu ... and I could well imagine some concepts which could work. However - as far as I am aware is a Maori Bank not even a TOP policy, it was just an idea of a possible solution to an interview question. Your response is absolutely inappropriate and ridiculous. Do first some research before you start throwing mud.

And yes, you still clearly do not seem to understand that the proposed $5000 are not a handout. I explained that already several times. Are you that thick or are you just trolling?

Are you really unable to comprehend even simple concepts? It is not a proposed benefit. It is (as described by TOP) a proposed reward or "Thank You" for young people who did complete the proposed Civil Service program. Call it "completion benefit" for doing something which was good for our society, whether it was caring for old people, planting trees or cleaning up our environment.

Look, if you want to continue a productive discussion, than lets have that. At this stage it feels however you are just repeating the same nonsense again and again without being able (or willing) to process new information.

This is unproductive, it is trolling, and frankly - you are damaging the election chances of the right parties. Look - while I am sure that some of the trolls might rejoice with you for wasting other peoples time, they would vote right anyway (i.e. no gain for your side). However - a centre right government needs the centre, and at this stage are you and your troll colleagues doing their best to drive decent liberals in droves to the other side. Bad strategy so close to the elections if I may say so ... ;

He's trying to have a discussion with you, and look at the demeaning and inflammatory language and characterisations you use in response:

'Do you realise how misearable and desperate you look'
'You are basically a caricature of Donald Trump'
'Is this really the best the hard right can do?'
'Are you that thick or are you just trolling?'
'This is unproductive, it is trolling'
'some of the trolls might rejoice with you for wasting other peoples time'
'you and your troll colleagues'

You have your opinion that giving $15,000 to 18 year olds is a 'thankyou' for some civic service, others call it a hand out. A genuine thank you would be a certificate advising that the person has completed a period of civic service. It would be something a person could add to their CV. This $5,000 payout is a taxpayer funded windfall. You haven't 'debunked' anything, and you have no right to call somebody else 'thick' just because they don't agree to go along with your opinion.

There are so such things as 'liberals' in New Zealand politics. There is no Liberal Party, there is nobody on Right or Left who gets routinely referred to as 'liberals'. I've heard it said that somebody can be 'liberal on social policy'. That's as far as it goes in New Zealand political discourse. It is difficult to have a rational debate with you when you insist on making terms up on the spot & are unable to provide any reasoning or context.

Examing TOP's policies and candidates seems to have you on the ropes, and you respond by calling people 'hard right' or 'extreme right wing'. Your idea that an examination of TOP's policies would have 'decent liberals (flocking) in droves to the other side' is beyond laughable. There are no 'liberals' for starters, and you seem to be occupying a reality that no-one else inhabits at this point.

[BlackPeter]

That seems like more theft. TOP are fringe left as far as I am concerned and will not get my vote.

Sadly Logan is not even able to follow quite simple instructions. He would have needed to enter the land value of the average property instead of entering the capital value (btw, land value is less, unless you live on a section without improvements).

I we take his proposed salary and an average urban land value of say $350000 (that's the price for the section without a house on it), than you would pay $2 more in tax per week if we apply the TOP tax proposal.

If your section however is rural (not urban), you would save $2520 pa.

I suggest he does the calculation again and you do at least a minimum of processing and research before you parrot the misinformation some right wing trolls like Logan are spreading.

So dumb, but tells us a lot about the hard right. Making up stories, and spreading the lies.