Labour govt 2020-23

[Blue Skies]

And this is where it leads.
Seemingly decent people heading down the route of tyranny. Do you advocate the same for smokers? Or people who consume too much sugar? Shall we limit their movement? Perhaps put yellow triangles on their clothing so we can be sure of who THEY are.

It seems to me, most here are concerned on behalf of others. EG, they will be vaccinated but are concerned for those who aren't, or for the development of variants.

Firstly, variants are going to happen, more than likely from offshore and find their way here. Thinking we can stop them is akin to thinking reducing NZ's carbon emissions has any effect.

Secondly, be wary of people who want to curtail rights and freedoms out of a concern for others. It is seldom the case if history can teach us anything.

I hear what you're saying but the big difference is (considerate) smokers etc only damage their own health whereas anti-vaxers in a pandemic infect, damage & even kill others.

[Balance]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-z...d-rentals.html

The housing disaster worsens (hard to believe it can get any worse but it has) with rental properties being sold as first home buyers buy properties outside of Auckland.

Watch the waiting list for state & emergency housing grow longer and longer.

Kiwibuild, anyone?

[fungus pudding]

And this is where it leads.
Seemingly decent people heading down the route of tyranny. Do you advocate the same for smokers? Or people who consume too much sugar? Shall we limit their movement? Perhaps put yellow triangles on their clothing so we can be sure of who THEY are.

It seems to me, most here are concerned on behalf of others. EG, they will be vaccinated but are concerned for those who aren't, or for the development of variants.

Firstly, variants are going to happen, more than likely from offshore and find their way here. Thinking we can stop them is akin to thinking reducing NZ's carbon emissions has any effect.

Secondly, be wary of people who want to curtail rights and freedoms out of a concern for others. It is seldom the case if history can teach us anything.

What about those who wish to curtail rights and freedoms of others, out of concern for themselves?

[jonu]

What about those who wish to curtail rights and freedoms of others, out of concern for themselves?

Aaah, good old whataboutery.

We all have the potential for violence. What about that bloke on the bus that looked at me funny? I'm concerned for my safety. Who knows what he might do? I know, I'll ban him from the bus because of the potential for him to do me harm.

[iceman]

What do you think the target should be - if not 100%?
Should the country open if we then don't reach that target (vaccine hesitancy etc)? Stay closed?
I am curious as to what angle some people are coming from.

I sadly think we need to give a few more months due to the very slow and poor vaccination plan, until we reach about 80%. Then we should start opening the border by allowing in fully vaccinated people requiring a negative PCR test and no MIQ.
The Government needs to realise and accept that the MIQ booking system is a complete farce and failure and do away with it. Control incoming passenger numbers through airlines selling seats, with a set % in economy class (i.e. cheap). That's my angle.
An elimination strategy is a fallacy.

[iceman]

I hear what you're saying but the big difference is (considerate) smokers etc only damage their own health whereas anti-vaxers in a pandemic infect, damage & even kill others.

But what happened ? Are we not "be kind', "team of 5 million" ? Or are we just a selfish lot ?

[fungus pudding]

Aaah, good old whataboutery.

We all have the potential for violence. What about that bloke on the bus that looked at me funny? I'm concerned for my safety. Who knows what he might do? I know, I'll ban him from the bus because of the potential for him to do me harm.

Which of dourse is quite different from having contagious, infected people wandering freely, unidentified, in the midst of others.

[dobby41]

And this is where it leads.
Seemingly decent people heading down the route of tyranny. Do you advocate the same for smokers? Or people who consume too much sugar? Shall we limit their movement? Perhaps put yellow triangles on their clothing so we can be sure of who THEY are.

It seems to me, most here are concerned on behalf of others. EG, they will be vaccinated but are concerned for those who aren't, or for the development of variants.

Firstly, variants are going to happen, more than likely from offshore and find their way here. Thinking we can stop them is akin to thinking reducing NZ's carbon emissions has any effect.

Secondly, be wary of people who want to curtail rights and freedoms out of a concern for others. It is seldom the case if history can teach us anything.

I'm not advocating anything - spruiking ideas only.

When we open covid will come.
Those unvaccinated will get it (vaccinated will too but have less effect generally (nothing with this is absolute)) and a large number could end up in hospitals.
This could stretch the system and people with other issues will have their treatment delayed.
The effect is more than just covid.

[jonu]

Which of dourse is quite different from having contagious, infected people wandering freely, unidentified, in the midst of others.

Vaccinated people can also be infected and contagious. Being unvaccinated doesn't make you infected and contagious. There is the potential, hence my analogy to violence.

Life can never be made risk free. At some point we as a country have to choose to get on with life and live with Covid. As the rest of the world appears to be doing. We are just in for the shock of Community transmission from which we have been bubble wrapped to this point.

[Blue Skies]

But what happened ? Are we not "be kind', "team of 5 million" ? Or are we just a selfish lot ?

No, surely you can see most people are kind & considerate of others, just a very small percentage of selfish or deluded anti-vaxers who unfortunately put the rest of the population/team at risk.