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View Poll Results: Should there be a Capital Gains Tax on Property

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  • No

    213 100.00%
  • Yes

    74 56.49%
  • Goff is just an idiot

    2,147,483,658 100.00%
  • Epic fail for Labour

    1,935 100.00%
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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    No you wont get a credit for losses - this is about collecting tax off the wealthy, you would not want to disadvantage those that make bad decisions by giving them credits they couldn't use.

    A coin collector would pay CGT on any gain as he isn't in the business of trading coins. A coin dealer would pay tax on profits made.
    If CGT was treated simply as income without a separate tax rate, then it wouldn't make any difference. Both the collector and the dealer would pay tax at their marginal rate. That's an important point in designing a workable CGT, and stops the definition argument in its tracks, provided the collector can deduct his losses as the dealer would; and it's ridiculous to tax gains and not credit losses.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    and it's ridiculous to tax gains and not credit losses.
    I dont think it likely at all Labour (or anyone) would provide for tax credits on losses. Imagine how we would start accounting for our transactions then! Much simpler to just tax the wealthy on gains made and leave them to wear their own loses. (this approach is consistent with our current PAYE approach - you get taxed solely on income. There are no credits available for costs incurred in making that income)

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    I dont think it likely at all Labour (or anyone) would provide for tax credits on losses. )
    If that scenario eventuated then everyone would become a "trader" Ie sell family home, make it you are in the business of buying and selling property and hey presto you can claim all sorts of things. So they would have to credit losses or else there is another thriving industry. CGT is a huge mess either way.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    I'm sure GMT you must have some capital somewhere we can tax so any tax is equitable across all asset classes
    Oh, I certainly have capital, but it's the popping it into property that would potentially give me problems.
    Last edited by GTM 3442; 10-10-2017 at 07:19 PM.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    If that scenario eventuated then everyone would become a "trader" Ie sell family home, make it you are in the business of buying and selling property and hey presto you can claim all sorts of things. So they would have to credit losses or else there is another thriving industry. CGT is a huge mess either way.
    I'm inclined to think that after a few years of the distortions that a CGT would create, it would morph seamlessly into a simple wealth tax. After all, isn't that the aim?

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    If that scenario eventuated then everyone would become a "trader" Ie sell family home, make it you are in the business of buying and selling property and hey presto you can claim all sorts of things. So they would have to credit losses or else there is another thriving industry. CGT is a huge mess either way.
    No, it would just mean that the proceeds of the sale of some specified types of assets would be taxable on any gain made on cost or book value, after certain allowances.

    As to who defines the asset types affected, who defines which allowances, who defines "cost", that's a different story.

    Nothing to do with "trading" at all.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTM 3442 View Post
    No, it would just mean that the proceeds of the sale of some specified types of assets would be taxable on any gain made on cost or book value, after certain allowances.

    l.
    Exactly you would be able to claim costs if you are a trader, which normally you would not be able to do. So losses incurred as a trader would be tax deductible. So a capital gains tax yes, but if you have a capital loss you can use that to offset income.

    Ie currently as a share investor I do not pay capital gains tax on my "winners", however I cannot offset my "losers" against income. If I was a trader however I can offset losses against winners. But I chose not to under the current scenario because my winners are greater than my losers. (I can also claim expenses currently against my income from dividends etc). However if a capital gains tax on shares were to be introduced, I would become a "share trader" and thus be able to offset "losers" as well against the "winners" and income.
    Last edited by blackcap; 11-10-2017 at 06:49 AM.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    .................................
    However if a capital gains tax on shares were to be introduced, I would become a "share trader" and thus be able to offset "losers" as well against the "winners" and income.
    I would be joining you as a trader too bc if it happens.

  9. #169
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    You would be a trader by default anyway.

  10. #170
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    The main reason that savvy politicians, like John Key, and others avoided capital gains tax is the bottom line - you will get a return from the winners, less all their costs - but you will spend most of it on the losers, who will be experts on how and what to claim. And the cost of multitude of public servants you will need to operate the system will only be offset by the reduction in unemployment ( of public servants). Simple tax systems like GST are far more efficient at taking money from the public to fund the public. Imagine the rise in "cash jobs" if there is capital gains tax. I will have to pay more than two bottles of my Jim Beam to get my driveway restored after a storm. I may have to go to Jack Daniels by four and that costs me $40 to make. It might be cheaper to concrete my driveway but I would have to find a concrete truck driver who will drop his left overs as he passed.

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