Power shares

[Cricketfan]

What I want is a meter that will sense when spot retail prices get above a certain level. At that point it will switch off the grid and switch over to my house battery supply, thus shielding me from the 'peak hour' spike in spot retail prices. Then when the prices go down below my trigger level, the house battery will disconnect and my smart meter will see me resume taking my power from the grid. Finally in the middle of the night, with retail spot power prices at their lowest ebb, my smart meter will direct the grid to fully charge my battery again in the 'wee small hours' so it will be fully charged for the next day. Where can I get a smart meter like that?

SNOOPY

Don't think you can. As I mentioned before, smart is smart, they're all the same. It also doesn't sound like the job of a meter to do that. Maybe a separate device.

[Jantar]

Yes it does.

Do you believe that the massive growth in greenhouse gases (produced substantially by humans) and the year on year and decade on decade increases in global temperatures are not linked?......

There is a link and that was shown by John Tyndal in 1856. 1.2 deg C increase in atmospheric temperature for each doubling of CO2: The effect is logarithmic, and only happens in the ~7μ region. From this we can calculate that at the present CO2 concentration about 40% of the temperature rise since the turn of the century is probably anthropogenic, but that means natural variability is still dominant. This is understandable as we are still recovering from the Dalton Minima, and the true climate deniers are those who insist that man is solely to blame.

[fish]

There is a link and that was shown by John Tyndal in 1856. 1.2 deg C increase in atmospheric temperature for each doubling of CO2: The effect is logarithmic, and only happens in the ~7μ region. From this we can calculate that at the present CO2 concentration about 40% of the temperature rise since the turn of the century is probably anthropogenic, but that means natural variability is still dominant. This is understandable as we are still recovering from the Dalton Minima, and the true climate deniers are those who insist that man is solely to blame.

I value your contribution
However I feel you might be underestimating the anthropogenic effect however you make the important and valid point that there is likely to be a significant contribution from natural variation .
CO2 levels have been rising since the Industrial Revolution .
Methane significantly contributes.
As temperature rises water-vapour increases and this is the biggest greenhouse gas-are you including this aspect of the anthropogenic effect?.
The worse fossil fuel by far is coal.

Its important that people understand how global warming is caused and what we can do to mitigate it .
I feel we need to push electricity and ban the use of coal in its generation.
Natural gas appears the best transition fuel

[Jantar]

…...
As temperature rises water-vapour increases and this is the biggest greenhouse gas-are you including this aspect of the anthropogenic effect?.
….

Yes Atmosphere can hold 8% more water vapour per 1 K of warming. This effect is most noticeable in the polar regions, and sure enough that is also where the greatest component of anthropogenic warming is occurring.

[Snoopy]

The true comparison between your energy charge and Tiwai's energy charge is the 10c component of your energy bill to the 5c component of Tiwai's energy bill. To see the true energy part of your bill go to your gentailer's monthly operation report and look at the netback. Although not an exact figure it is generally representative of the amount that the they expect from retail customers.

Hi Jantar,

Contact Energy seems good at regularly giving out a 'netback' figure. The other 'gentailers' not so much. So I am hoping if I can find out just how the calculation is done, then I can calculate comparative figures for other gentailers. I am wondering if it is possible to calculate the 'netback' figure from other figures presented in the monthly Contact Energy Operating Report. The first step in that process is to define what 'netback' means in the electricity market sense.

https://contact.co.nz/-/media/contac...018.ashx?la=en

Slide 7 in the above 'November 2018' operating report gives us the definition:

What is Electricity Market Netback?

	Electricity Revenue from Mass Market Customers
less	Electricity Distribution Network Costs, Meter Costs and Electricity Levies
less	Direct Operating Costs to Serve the Customer (excludes Head Office allocation)
equals	Electricity Customer Netback

Now we move to the latest June 2020 monthly report

https://contact.co.nz/-/media/contac...020.ashx?la=en

The numbers I am using are from Slide 7.

	Average Electricity Sales Price	$236.67m
less	Electricity Direct pass Through Costs	($107.66m)
less	Cost to Serve	($11.90m)
equals	Electricity Customer Netback (?)	$117.11m

However, the actual answer is $101.03m. So there is something wrong in my calculation method. Can you (or anyone else) offer an insight? Or is there not enough information given in the monthly Contact report to allow the 'netback' to be calculated?

TIA

SNOOPY

[Jantar]

Hi Jantar,

Contact Energy seems good at regularly giving out a 'netback' figure. The other 'gentailers' not so much. So I am hoping if I can find out just how the calculation is done, then I can calculate comparative figures for other gentailers. I am wondering if it is possible to calculate the 'netback' figure from other figures presented in the monthly Contact Energy Operating Report. The first step in that process is to define what 'netback' means in the electricity market sense.

https://contact.co.nz/-/media/contac...018.ashx?la=en

Slide 7 in the above 'November 2018' operating report gives us the definition:

What is Electricity Market Netback?

	Electricity Revenue from Mass Market Customers
less	Electricity Distribution Network Costs, Meter Costs and Electricity Levies
less	Direct Operating Costs to Serve the Customer (excludes Head Office allocation)
equals	Electricity Customer Netback

Now we move to the latest June 2020 monthly report

https://contact.co.nz/-/media/contac...020.ashx?la=en

The numbers I am using are from Slide 7.

	Average Electricity Sales Price	$236.67m
less	Electricity Direct pass Through Costs	($107.66m)
less	Cost to Serve	($11.90m)
equals	Electricity Customer Netback (?)	$117.11m

However, the actual answer is $101.03m. So there is something wrong in my calculation method. Can you (or anyone else) offer an insight? Or is there not enough information given in the monthly Contact report to allow the 'netback' to be calculated?

TIA

SNOOPY

There are a few other items that are not included, but generally small in relation to the overall figure. These include losses or gains on hedge products and losses or gains on ancillary products. These are often not known until after the end of each month when Transpower carries out it reconciliation.

[Snoopy]

There are a few other items that are not included, but generally small in relation to the overall figure. These include losses or gains on hedge products and losses or gains on ancillary products. These are often not known until after the end of each month when Transpower carries out it reconciliation.

I have had another look at that Contact Energy June 2020 Operational report. I can't see any $/MWh hedge figures that I can dovetail into my calculation, or any other figures on 'ancillary products' for that matter. So it looks like your answer is that it isn't possible to calculate a monthly electricity netback figure from the other figures given in the monthly report. However I don't buy the argument that these 'few other items' are not known at the time of writing the report. Contact have provided a 'netback' figure. So Contact must know what these adjustment figures are and they have made their adjustments accordingly to produce their 101.03 $/MWh figure.

Adjustments small in relation to the overall figure? The difference between 101.03 $/MWh and 117.11 $/MWh is that the real figure is 13.7% smaller that the one I calculated.
I call that difference significant.

Hedge products would normally be used by a gentailer to provide input cost certainty. So I find it odd that they haven't been provided in the monthly report. Nevertheless there is probably an equal chance that any particular hedge will enhance or reduce an equivalent unhedged result. So it might be best to go with the 'unhedged and unadjusted' netback figure that I have calculated anyway. Perhaps an 'operational netback' like the one I calculated is actually a better performance measuring stick than the real thing?

SNOOPY

[peat]

What I want is a meter that will sense when spot retail prices get above a certain level. At that point it will switch off the grid and switch over to my house battery supply, thus shielding me from the 'peak hour' spike in spot retail prices. Then when the prices go down below my trigger level, the house battery will disconnect and my smart meter will see me resume taking my power from the grid. Finally in the middle of the night, with retail spot power prices at their lowest ebb, my smart meter will direct the grid to fully charge my battery again in the 'wee small hours' so it will be fully charged for the next day. Where can I get a smart meter like that?

SNOOPY

I think (but dont really know for sure) you will find a modern system quite smart about how it uses the solar energy supply from your PV's on the roof and your Tesla battery. That said it may not be able to dynamically react to fluctuating prices on the grid.

I doubt you'll ever find it worthwhile storing power unless you're in the game of making it as well.

[Carpenterjoe]

I think (but dont really know for sure) you will find a modern system quite smart about how it uses the solar energy supply from your PV's on the roof and your Tesla battery. That said it may not be able to dynamically react to fluctuating prices on the grid.

I doubt you'll ever find it worthwhile storing power unless you're in the game of making it as well.

Australian based, might not help for nz.

https://repositpower.com/

[kiora]

Not Contact but Vector using batteries to lower need to upgrade network
https://www.vector.co.nz/innovation/...-at-glen-innes