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View Poll Results: Should there be a Capital Gains Tax on Property

Voters
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  • No

    213 100.00%
  • Yes

    74 56.49%
  • Goff is just an idiot

    2,147,483,658 100.00%
  • Epic fail for Labour

    1,935 100.00%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    A gain will bump people into the next tax bracket, not necessarily the top bracket

    Income Tax rate Effective tax rate
    $0 – $14,000 10.5% 10.5%
    $14,001 – $48,000 17.5% 10.5 - 15.5%
    $48,001 – $70,000 30% 15.5 - 20.0%
    Over $70,000 33%
    Sure - their top bracket. Someone with few non-exempt assets will probably end up paying less tax under the TWG proposals.

    Besides If the TWG’s are ever introduced and CGT receipts become meaningful then maybe those tax bands will be more generous and the top rate of income tax may be dropped to 28%...However our “poor” taxpayer may have already shifted all his equity into his over-capitalised multi-million Dollar exempt principal residence by then.
    Last edited by Bjauck; 15-03-2019 at 08:36 AM.

  2. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Sure - their top bracket. Someone with few non-exempt assets will probably end up paying less tax under the TWG proposals.
    Which results in what we know all along. The "rich" will be taxed to pay to the "poor". Its all about wealth redistribution.

  3. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Which results in what we know all along. The "rich" will be taxed to pay to the "poor". Its all about wealth redistribution.
    I thought you were concerned about the poor taxpayer with little capital?

    Under the TWG proposal, If you are rich with a valuable principal house and lots of income producing equity, I don’t imagine the overall effect will be much different (given the stated parameters)

    If you have a big expensive house and a high income, you could see a tax reduction.

    If you have currently no principal house, minimised taxable income and lots of investments which have relied on capital gain things may be different if capital profit is treated the same as income.
    Last edited by Bjauck; 15-03-2019 at 08:56 AM.

  4. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Sure - their top bracket. Someone with few non-exempt assets will probably end up paying less tax under the TWG proposals.

    Besides If the TWG’s are ever introduced and CGT receipts become meaningful then maybe those tax bands will be more generous and the top rate of income tax may be dropped to 28%...However our “poor” taxpayer may have already shifted all his equity into his over-capitalised multi-million Dollar exempt principal residence by then.
    Poor tax payers investing in their MM$ home? First you need to find where the buyers of these high end homes? Have we forgot there's a ban on foreign / non-residents buying real estate in NZ? Kiwis are not use to investing into their own home as the focus has always been through property accumulation and NOT property improvements. This is evident in how N. Americans view home ownership with multi-generational living vs NZ's change the house as often as "changing cars" point of view.

    Is it me or the media is slow at releasing more news about this CGT? Beehive isn't talking much about CGT and isn't the reporting deadline in April?

  5. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    Poor tax payers investing in their MM$ home? First you need to find where the buyers of these high end homes? Have we forgot there's a ban on foreign / non-residents buying real estate in NZ? Kiwis are not use to investing into their own home as the focus has always been through property accumulation and NOT property improvements. This is evident in how N. Americans view home ownership with multi-generational living vs NZ's change the house as often as "changing cars" point of view.

    Is it me or the media is slow at releasing more news about this CGT? Beehive isn't talking much about CGT and isn't the reporting deadline in April?
    I disagree - Many kiwis improve their main residence by adding rooms, renovating, landscaping etc.

    As for multi-generational living in the same residence, that may be a cultural or affordability issue for many. I would have that would have applied in all the states of the USA including British Canada and French Quebec as well..

    It is true - buying then selling the principal residence and borrowing to leverage your way up the property ladder is the de facto tax efficient way to accumulate the kiwi nest egg or fund for old age!

    CGT in the form as released by the majority on the TWG is a political non-starter. A NZ CGT is like orthodontistry on Ken Dodd’s teeth*. Most people know work needs to be done to fix the teeth but nobody wants to be the one to have to do it and possibly stuffing up his act.

    * or Cilla Black being gender equal! You have to be a certain age to appreciate those references (they were popular here back in the day. Did they make it to N.America?)
    Last edited by Bjauck; 15-03-2019 at 01:54 PM.

  6. #556
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    Actually as a population whole, no they don't look to improve their homes. After countless of trade shows in building, and with what mass group builders tell me, the focus on the typical NZ resident is not to improve the house by pouring $ into their own home. Let me elaborate.

    In NZ residential building, they've never gone off to systematically build houses to scale and allowed for use of active ventilation (which requires a exceeding higher order of skill and requirement for 'air tight' construction) - not that such feature is important but it is a major cost in countries that do have these systems. It's been argued NZ's climate never warranted for such high performing homes. I mean insulation was not a code requirement until the late 90s. So what the architects continue to tell me is that if a person wants a better home, they don't pour $ in it to improve the home they live in but rather, they sell it and buy a NEWER home for the features they're after. There's a stigma that NZ houses are built poorly and that holding them too long creates problems = excessively higher maintenance costs.

    Then there's the aspect of renovations that require lots of compliance from local councils, such as changing the plumbing around and electrical. It's a major headache. I'm not speak about putting up a conservatory or adding one of those 'Archgola' awnings. I'm talking the performance of the house in living comfort. New houses are far more comfortable than the state built, uninsulated homes despite how such old houses may have a certain appeal.

    The worse part about NZ's old stock of homes is that no amount of $ you could pour into it would beat the performance of a newly built house at today's building code (well to within reason). A lot of $ can be spent on changing the windows, insulating the sub-floor, adding heat pumps, etc. but all these costs have paybacks well beyond the owner's anticipation of keeping the home. So the end result is houses on average change hands every 5 - 6 years.

  7. #557
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    On average that's probably correct, SBQ. There are exceptions of course. Plenty of younger developers who spent too much doing up a place, and others who have done fine, because they're right in the trade sector with suitable experience.

    I found this survey result interesting.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/03/2...-cgt?preview=1

  8. #558
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    My thoughts is that Labor don't need to get it past Winston, they will ride high in the polls after the terror attacks where they could govern alone. Wait for the bad news next month from them which will hopefully trip them up and allow the gloss to wear thin
    Stick to the strategy

  9. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
    My thoughts is that Labor don't need to get it past Winston, they will ride high in the polls after the terror attacks where they could govern alone. Wait for the bad news next month from them which will hopefully trip them up and allow the gloss to wear thin
    They do need to get it past NZ First if it is to be legislated before the next election. After that election they need to be elected as the next government to implement. NZ First may agree to a watered down CGT. That would help elect a Labour-led government in 2020, and the watered down version would be a basis to extend a CGT. Because, mandate.

  10. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemis View Post
    They do need to get it past NZ First if it is to be legislated before the next election. After that election they need to be elected as the next government to implement. NZ First may agree to a watered down CGT. That would help elect a Labour-led government in 2020, and the watered down version would be a basis to extend a CGT. Because, mandate.
    Ahh, but if Labor poll 60%+ which is possible, they might 'forget' their COL partner and concentrate on Greens
    Stick to the strategy

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