If National wins ...

[craic]

A dying issue - Labour and the left lost. Self-justification through spurious arguments about "economics" will not change anything. We will continue to prosper under JK's leadership, and if there is any sense left in the electorate, he may even get another term.

[elZorro]

Craic: We will continue to prosper under JK's leadership..

I have an argument with both halves of that sentence. Who, exactly, make up the "we", are we really prospering as well as "we" should, or does it just look like we are sometimes, and has JK provided leadership? I think they just borrowed a whole lot of money and waited it out, and we're still not in a budget surplus. Now, the screws are going on, for what I hope will be their last term.

[craic]

elZ if you have problems understanding "we" in this context I am not surprised at your confusion in other simple areas. We - read "the people of this country" continue to be better off than most and the election result is evidence of their satisfaction. Your problem as a leftie is not with JK, it is with the squabbling rabble on your side of the fence. The collection of mantras that they use to gain the attention of the Gods have failed as they usually do and they need to return to the realities of daily life in NZ. I will go out now and labour, physically for a few hours to keep my mind and body in good shape but I will not take my eye off the ball and maybe, just maybe, I will be able to do as I did Monday to Tuesday and make a couple of grand on a buy/sell trade. I will owe some income tax but that's OK - I believe in "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" and I will continue my generosity to charities though the good offices of the Totalisator Agency Board. But it's not all well because today, Wednesday, is one of my alcohol-free days so I will settle down with a pot of tea tonight.

[westerly]

elZ if you have problems understanding "we" in this context I am not surprised at your confusion in other simple areas. We - read "the people of this country" continue to be better off than most and the election result is evidence of their satisfaction. Your problem as a leftie is not with JK, it is with the squabbling rabble on your side of the fence. The collection of mantras that they use to gain the attention of the Gods have failed as they usually do and they need to return to the realities of daily life in NZ. I will go out now and labour, physically for a few hours to keep my mind and body in good shape but I will not take my eye off the ball and maybe, just maybe, I will be able to do as I did Monday to Tuesday and make a couple of grand on a buy/sell trade. I will owe some income tax but that's OK - I believe in "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" and I will continue my generosity to charities though the good offices of the Totalisator Agency Board. But it's not all well because today, Wednesday, is one of my alcohol-free days so I will settle down with a pot of tea tonight.

In someways the Labour selection process is more honest by being open. National who run a very tight disciplinary process (apart from the odd leak ) manage to keep their squabbles in house.
I struggle to recall National's policy apart from a $10000 donation to the banks and property developers via a new house buyer. However I am sure the wealthy oversea donors to the National party coffers are having a big say in policy.
As for the TAB since when has it been a charity.? Enjoy your pot of tea

[Sgt Pepper]

A dying issue - Labour and the left lost. Self-justification through spurious arguments about "economics" will not change anything. We will continue to prosper under JK's leadership, and if there is any sense left in the electorate, he may even get another term.

Craic
Your optimism is laudable however things economically are rapidly cooling, dairy prices tanking, business confidence down etc. The electorate can be very fickle and if government revenue declines to the extent that the "protected species" of working for families, interest free student loans, are at risk of reduction, then 2017 may be very interesting indeed

[nextbigthing]

Craic
Your optimism is laudable however things economically are rapidly cooling, dairy prices tanking, business confidence down etc. The electorate can be very fickle and if government revenue declines to the extent that the "protected species" of working for families, interest free student loans, are at risk of reduction, then 2017 may be very interesting indeed

Traditionally voters turn to National in economic gloom as they're perceived as the party best to handle it. This could play into their hands perfectly.

Or maybe it was all part of C-T's plan all along. Geez those guys are REALLY good!

[Sgt Pepper]

Traditionally voters turn to National in economic gloom as they're perceived as the party best to handle it. This could play into their hands perfectly.

Or maybe it was all part of C-T's plan all along. Geez those guys are REALLY good!

Ha, yes NBT could all be part of a devious plan. Seriously though we still remain a very small economy with a narrow range of exports. People can be very selfish and if entitlements, and thats what some things have become, are scaled back then usually they take it out on the government at the ballot box. Just my opinion

[elZorro]

elZ if you have problems understanding "we" in this context I am not surprised at your confusion in other simple areas. We - read "the people of this country" continue to be better off than most and the election result is evidence of their satisfaction. Your problem as a leftie is not with JK, it is with the squabbling rabble on your side of the fence. The collection of mantras that they use to gain the attention of the Gods have failed as they usually do and they need to return to the realities of daily life in NZ. I will go out now and labour, physically for a few hours to keep my mind and body in good shape but I will not take my eye off the ball and maybe, just maybe, I will be able to do as I did Monday to Tuesday and make a couple of grand on a buy/sell trade. I will owe some income tax but that's OK - I believe in "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" and I will continue my generosity to charities though the good offices of the Totalisator Agency Board. But it's not all well because today, Wednesday, is one of my alcohol-free days so I will settle down with a pot of tea tonight.

Craic, thanks for clearing that up. You must realise of course, that having spare cash lying about that you can play on the sharemarket with, puts you in some kind of a top percentile. Most people never get organised enough to do that. If there were more people working the sharemarket, maybe it'd be a more reliable source of profits. Good on you for doing a lot better than me.

As to whether Joe Bloggs is better off, that is perhaps not as obvious. Certainly the Crown is worse off than in 2008. Taxpayers will in future need to repay that debt, or keep paying interest with their taxes. The minimum pay hasn't gone up much, probably not as quickly as inflation. There are more unemployed than there were, especially as a percentage. House prices and rents have trended up, fuel has gone up. The exchange rate is headed down (import prices go up), there is less money floating around in 2014.

I found a reference to the ROI for dairy farmers and beef farmers in NZ, at the moment they'll have at best about 5-8% returns before interest and tax. In 2013-2014 with the higher dairy payout, more like up to 12%. But, Federated Farmers say that in an average year dairy farmers pay $300mill income tax through all mechanisms (personal, company, trusts). This implies that the average stated clear income is more like about 1% after interest, as their combined investments would surely have a value of over $100bill (net borrowings of $50bill). Just another spurious argument, I know. Humour me.

[nextbigthing]

el Z that's one thing that really grinds my gears about lefty commentators. They complained the whole time the dollar was high because manufacturing was suffering. Now they're complaining imports are going to cost too much. You can't have it both ways, but that is a typical lefty thought process, that they can.
It's complaining for the sake of complaining.

[elZorro]

el Z that's one thing that really grinds my gears about lefty commentators. They complained the whole time the dollar was high because manufacturing was suffering. Now they're complaining imports are going to cost too much. You can't have it both ways, but that is a typical lefty thought process, that they can.
It's complaining for the sake of complaining.

Not quite, NBT. I was thinking about what is down the track for employees and those on fixed incomes, the bulk of us, not too much to get excited about. If the exchange rate lowers, it'll help exporters a bit, but that takes a while to filter through. A lower exchange rate shows up in the prices for some imported goods, like fuel, straight away. We need smarter businesses with better margins on their export goods and services, then the exchange rate won't be much of an issue, and our wages can do better at keeping up with Australia's.